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Geomancer Demon Lord
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 835
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:10 pm Post subject: Update Concern |
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With the born of the fire template and the chakra gems, I feel the Naruto d20 is going to far into D&D territory. I mean, really, in a Naruto game, where are you going to find a fire elemental? A fiery being composed of chakra, maybe, but not something that is sentient itself.
Not trying to be a buzzkill. Just offering my 2 cents. |
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NinjaCP Master of Space and Time
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 1134 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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Everything in the file is entirely optional. Nobody says you have to include it in your game. |
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Athildur Sexually progressive Valkyrie
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 3197 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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It offers variety from the neverending nin...because the narutoverse basically has only that.
Enemy nin...and bijuu. Nothing else. Perhaps the occasional strange bloodline, but that's all. I often make campaigns incorporating various fantasy elements to make it more exciting. _________________ Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh* |
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Arazien Chuunin
Joined: 11 Sep 2007 Posts: 56
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Like CP, it's optional. Cold hard truth is, the game itself is optional. Frankto puts a lot of work into what he does.
Personally, after fighting hordes and hordes of ninjas, I'd like to kick back, relax, and throw a Water dragon at a fire elemental with my Elementalist. _________________ The power of Youth compels you.
The power of Youth compels you! |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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I really hate responses like those, since really, no it's not. Changing a single rule, no matter how little, is going to completely unbalance and change your game. For Example, using the old bloodline rules means players can no longer use any technique of their clan or ability, since the technique will work differently. New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking.
(And like always, I remain strongly against about half the stuff in the update. Like bloodline levels as now there is no reason not to gain a bloodline. Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.) |
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NinjaCP Master of Space and Time
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 1134 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well, you do still have to pay it off with Bloodline levels later on. Plus now low-level characters don't get ridiculous bonuses like they did before.
As for the puppeteer, you can just use Chozou Fuuin. |
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Elon Shinobigami
Joined: 10 Jan 2005 Posts: 1198 Location: Spain
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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You have to think Nd20 is a suplement for d20 modern. Not everyone plays in the narutoverse.
And even there, I could easily figure some crazy fire kami being an elemental. _________________ Oden! Guide our ships, our axes, spears and swords! Guide us through storms that whip and in brutal war!
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! |
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Geomancer Demon Lord
Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 835
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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Elon wrote: | You have to think Nd20 is a suplement for d20 modern. Not everyone plays in the narutoverse.
And even there, I could easily figure some crazy fire kami being an elemental. |
Hmmm... you've got a point there...
I dunno, the new update just unnerved me for some reason. Maybe it was all the new stuff... |
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Frankto Shinobigami
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 7372 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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Hah!
Do tell, then. Where are you going to find a demonic being made of chakra?
Society in the Naruto world is clearly in ruins, or recovering. Elementals are manifestation of the element born from the ambient chakra in that element.
Don't like it? Disallow it. _________________ "It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."
1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client
Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going! |
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Whitefire First Mate! Arr!
Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 435
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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I think the elementals are a nice touch it is better than facing constant ninja and keeping track of all those techniques they could use in different situations. Plus from what it sounds like elementals are basically a mass of chakra like bijuu. _________________ "Arrr!"
- Frankto |
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IanYuy Genin
Joined: 12 Dec 2006 Posts: 11
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:28 pm Post subject: |
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kp91 wrote: | New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking. |
You could always seal the puppet in a scroll, couldn't you? That's what Kankurou does once he gets so many...
kp91 wrote: | Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.) |
The difference in that instance is the Advanced Bloodline Feat. One character has a feat that gives them +1 to those things, the other has a feat for something else. How is that much difference than other feats that give pluses to things or make a character more efficient? (It also eats up a slot for your 1st level feats, so you can't take as many character-altering feats like Will over Flesh or the such.) Bloodlines aren't meant to be played that way but it balanced itself out when you do that. Besides, you still gotta pay chakra to open those eyes anyway. _________________
Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today! |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Quote: | New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking. |
You could always seal the puppet in a scroll, couldn't you? That's what Kankurou does once he gets so many... |
Except that takes being about 20th level because of the weight. |
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Keldon_Draconian Grandmaster
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 1251 Location: Hidden Sand
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | (And like always, I remain strongly against about half the stuff in the update. Like bloodline levels as now there is no reason not to gain a bloodline. Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.) |
If you don't pay bloodline levels, you receive a penalty to your experience. The character without bloodline will be on a higher level. And the character who has the bloodline has to spend a feat for that.
Quote: | Except that takes being about 20th level because of the weight. |
Not really. First, you can master the technique. Also, a typical scroll can hold up to 5 Chozou Fuuin seals. So, you need to be on level 9 to get the technique, that's all. |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:19 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Not really. First, you can master the technique. Also, a typical scroll can hold up to 5 Chozou Fuuin seals. So, you need to be on level 9 to get the technique, that's all. |
Then you'd need to break your puppet into 5 pieces. |
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JayToTheMe Genin
Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:37 am Post subject: |
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I find the new bloodline rules to be fairly balanced - at least, mcuh more so than the old ones. Sure, you might argue that the abilities that come with taking the Advanced Bloodline feat but no levels are a LITTLE overpowered, but there are plenty of ways a good GM can counterract this.
For example, I've got an idea for a campaign set in Kirigakure, with a strong anti-bloodline bias, so a bloodline character will basically suffer widespread social discrimination, and may even be physically attacked for his gifts.
Another good way to balance any percieved OP-ness for bloodline characters in large clans such as the Uchiha and Hyuuga is to give them actual clan duties. When the characters get some time off, they all want to train and learn new techniques - but Hyuuga Charname of the branch family is assigned to three days of menial guard duty or errands by the clan head while his teammates are out mastering ass-kick no jutsu.
That said, the Aburame clan under the new rules seems pretty spiffy to me - it's my understanding that minor bloodlines don't take XP penalties for not taking any bloodline levels, and all the Aburame's good stuff comes before level 6 anyway. Or does the number of Kikaichuu they have depend on their bloodline level, and not just their character level, as I've read it? The wording isn't very clear.
In regards to the original point raised by this thread, so much of the Narutoverse is unexplored in canon that you can't really say with certainty that elementals DON'T exist. You just need to introduce them right. Maybe a cult is creating them or something. Be creative. |
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Frankto Shinobigami
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 7372 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:43 am Post subject: |
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Quote: | Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR |
A large combat puppet weighs 200 pounds. A large utility puppet weighs 250 pounds.
Naruto has got to be able to create eleventy billion clones, right? Oh wait.
As for the Aburame, I hadn't thought to specify this, but Kikai Host doesn't progress past level 6 without a bloodline level. Same with kumonosu. _________________ "It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."
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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going! |
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JayToTheMe Genin
Joined: 24 May 2007 Posts: 11
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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Ah, fair enough then...damn, I was actually hoping that'd stay. Had an awesome Aburame rolled up. |
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Frankto Shinobigami
Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 7372 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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No dice. _________________ "It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."
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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going! |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Chozou Fuuin - 20/level
250/20 = 12.5 or you have to be 13th level to use a large puppet as no one is going to want that encumbrance and no one is going to pay constant chakra to make it walk. |
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Athildur Sexually progressive Valkyrie
Joined: 27 Jul 2005 Posts: 3197 Location: Netherlands
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:15 am Post subject: |
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Ever consider that it might have been the point...that puppeteers can't use large puppets until 13th level? ... _________________ Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh* |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Or a medium until level 10 given it's 200 lbs. |
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Felix_Zyphros Shinobigami
Joined: 06 Jun 2006 Posts: 1049 Location: Village Hidden in the Night
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:45 am Post subject: |
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No, a medium sixed puppet is 75lbs.... In which you would need to be level 9 to make the seal. And it's lesser form, Kankin Kashihon Fuushin, would only require level 7.
You're losing your arguing skills KP _________________ I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune
Last edited by Felix_Zyphros on Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cmkawasaki Lazy Programmer
Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3388
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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There is a trick to the moving of the puppets. It's called letting oneself be encumbered.
Bloodlines are fairly balanced - you force them to pay the level when the level needs to be taken. End of story, it remains balanced.
I can't say aobut Puppeteers. I have to study them some more and see what I've missed. |
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golentan ANBU Rookie
Joined: 28 Jan 2008 Posts: 148 Location: My happy place.
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Posted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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Sealing scrolls specify explicitly that you can store double the weight the technique for sealing things specifies. So you don't even have to be 10th level to store said puppet. _________________ "I roll a Nat 1 on my gather information check."
"Roll for critical failure."
"Another Nat 1."
"Alright, you wake up three days later with amnesia."
-Myself and one of my players. |
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