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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7372
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sup.


Gimme some thoughts on this feat, I'm a bit unsure how balance (overpowered, underpowered) that thing is for an epic feat.


Soul of the Summoner [Meta-Chakra, Epic]
You imbue your summoned creature with the very essence of your soul.
Prerequisite: Gift of Summoning, Empower Summoning, Int 19 or Cha 19.
Benefit: You may spend 1 meta-chakra charge immediately upon summoning any summoned creature and imbue it with a certain emotion. The emotion will always be in the forefront of the creature's mind until it is summoned, and will seem perfectly natural to the creature. Broodlord summons may reject the emotion by succeeding a Will save (DC 25+summoner's Cha modifier) upon being summoned.
- Anger: The creature will be intensely angry and lash out blindly at any creature it can. The summoned creature gains a +8 bonus to Strength and Dexterity scores, but will become unable to use any Intelligence-, Wisdom-, or Charisma-based skills, and the Concentration skill, or perform any technique, and will attack the closest thing it perceives as an enemy (see Frenzy ability for details). This effect last until the creature is slain, dismissed or banished, and counts as a frenzy effect. The creature can be given orders for 1 round after it is summoned, by the summoner, before incoherent rage sets in. It will follow commands until the command is carried out, or it becomes threatened by an outside source.

- Hatred (requires Evil allegiance): The summoned creature will focus its wrath on a specific creature or type of creature the summoner had in mind when performing the summoning. The summon gains a +2 bonus to damage rolls, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot and Survival check made against the creature type per 3 summon levels (doubled for specific creatures or character). If the chosen enemy is a specific creature, meaning a creature with a name and an identity, the summon has intimate knowledge of the creature on the same level as the summoner's. It will retain that knowledge until the summon expires and everytime it is summoned with this same purpose after that.

- Determination: The summoned creature gains a +1 bonus to Will saves against compulsion, enchantments, fear, phantasm, and sleep effects every summon level, and is able to remain conscious and perform normally when reduced below 0 hit points and dying.

- Compassion: The summoned creature will be summoned with the unyielding desire to aid and protect those weaker than itself, or a creature it was summoned to protect. It gains the Harm's Way ability (as per Undying Shinobi) and a +1 bonus per 2 summon levels to Defense and saving throws when protecting creature with 5 or more HD less than itself (half that, rounded down, if summoned to protect a single creature only).

- Heroism (requires Good allegiance): The summoned creature is made to radiate such a feeling of heroism that it becomes immune to fear effect, and grants all allies within 30 feet, as well as itself, a +1 bonus to attack rolls and saving throws against fear every 3 summon levels (+1 if it is a Sire, or +2 if it is a Broodlord). Once per encounter, the summoned creature can let forth a rallying cry, and grant all allies within 30 feet a +1 bonus to damage rolls per summon level to their next attack.




Also more to come on celestial blood pacts.
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, about the "anger" effect. It twice as strong as most frenzy effects (Such as Barbarian Rage or even Beastmaster's Frenzy, Bearer of Shukaku's Frenzy, etc). Besides, the big creatures on which a player would probably use the effect already have an ubber strength score. Adding +8 to it would tend to make summoning too strong. A bear could rise its strength score up to 65 by using this. Also, massive size increases tend to be balanced by a Dexterity penalty. Adding +8 to Dexterity score would make those big creatures as nimble as a medium-sized and agile shinobi, IMHO.

My suggestion: Make the "Anger" effect either like the Barbarian Rage or like the Beastmaster's ability.

Now, the "Hatred" emotion. I can see where the idea came from, Ranger's ability isn't it? To make it in pair with the ranger, i wouldn't double the bonus for a specific creature (Too ubber, and players would always choose a single strong creature as the target instead of a lot of weaker creatures that can easily be killed).

Determination seems fine, considering that most summons have very low will saving throws. Compassion seems fine too, as well as heroism.

Also, i think it would be a good idea if Genjutsu (X ranks) is a requisite for the feat.
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cmkawasaki
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Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keldon_Draconian wrote:
First, about the "anger" effect. It twice as strong as most frenzy effects (Such as Barbarian Rage or even Beastmaster's Frenzy, Bearer of Shukaku's Frenzy, etc). Besides, the big creatures on which a player would probably use the effect already have an ubber strength score. Adding +8 to it would tend to make summoning too strong. A bear could rise its strength score up to 65 by using this. Also, massive size increases tend to be balanced by a Dexterity penalty. Adding +8 to Dexterity score would make those big creatures as nimble as a medium-sized and agile shinobi, IMHO.

My suggestion: Make the "Anger" effect either like the Barbarian Rage or like the Beastmaster's ability.

Now, the "Hatred" emotion. I can see where the idea came from, Ranger's ability isn't it? To make it in pair with the ranger, i wouldn't double the bonus for a specific creature (Too ubber, and players would always choose a single strong creature as the target instead of a lot of weaker creatures that can easily be killed).

Determination seems fine, considering that most summons have very low will saving throws. Compassion seems fine too, as well as heroism.

Also, i think it would be a good idea if Genjutsu (X ranks) is a requisite for the feat.


I have to disagree with the argument that the Berserk power is too strong. The Summoner loses control of the summon, so in other words, after it kills all of it's enemies, it turns on it's allies, as per Frenzy. In that regard, it's a double-edged sword.
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I have to disagree with the argument that the Berserk power is too strong. The Summoner loses control of the summon, so in other words, after it kills all of it's enemies, it turns on it's allies, as per Frenzy. In that regard, it's a double-edged sword.


You can simply dismiss it if the creature causes trouble to your allies. So, no big deal.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good point. Not anymore.
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Elon
Shinobigami


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 18, 2008 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got to agree with Keldon on DEX thingy. In my opinion, bonuses to CON would fit more.

I can't really find anything unbalanced on the other emotions.

PS: I'm back.
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OverWilliam
Genin


Joined: 16 May 2008
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really enjoy creatively applying the somewhat lower level 'utility' techniques and using them to pwn people who just thoughtlessly load up on whatever the highest level possible Jutsu they can. The other fun thing about them is that they have applications out of combat instead of existing solely to kill stuff. Some humble suggestions for more along this vein...

Along the same trail of thought as Bouenkyou Shikaku no Jutsu (Telescopic Vision Technique), in fact it might even be a prerequisite, how about jutsu that give the user temporary high-speed sight? Since using one of the Speed Rank techniques would have more or less the same effect, what if this way it costs less chakra, lasts longer, and can go higher up the speed chain without strain on the body to make it useful? A strong Chuunin would be able to see fast enough to keep up with a strong Jounin's actual speed (or at least, enough to meet the Kawarimi defense). Also, on the subject of High Speed Sight itself, what do you say to High Speed Sight of sufficient level granting bonuses to reflex saves since you're able to see things coming easier?

I had an idea for a BBEG who uses really high-level sealing techniques to force ninja (potentially even PCs for a 'rescue' plot arc) to follow his orders against their will for as long as the seal remains unbroken (and the breaking of which the subject of the seal is obligated to resist with all of their power). It wouldn't mess with their personality, and they would be able to try to warn people to get away from them before they were forced to try to kill their friends, but once the initial will save for the seal was failed they would have no choice. Kindof a sinister, mind-effecting version of your standard Curse Seal. I couldn't really find a way to do this the way I wanted to, the closest thing being an Advanced Seal Jutsu that makes someone follow a single, simple, harmless task. Do with that what you will.

I like the Advanced Seal jutsu Kekkai no In (Barrier Seal). Could there be an instant action version of this jutsu that lets someone put up a barrier to block an attack and then immediately fades afterward? Smart Heroes and the like (exactly the kind of people to learn higher level sealing techniques) would benefit from that... Plus, it's just wicked awesome. Wink
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 08, 2008 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Seems that Kakashi uses a Raiton Bunshin. Any chances of this technique appearing on the main file?
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Frankto
Shinobigami


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe someday.

Updated the list, some things changed, but not much. Still uninspired.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DnD 4 brought some improvements.

Ever thought of merging skills to an Athletic skill, seriously, nobody takes climb or swim, there are enough easy to learn supporting techniques.

Oh and see my post in the Sage thread: http://narutod20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2378&start=20#31879

I hope it gives you enough inspiration to fulfill your duty and improve Nd20, meaning probably it could hit a stone loose Smile
Very similar to your initial archetype idea, probably similar to the power source in DnD4e, with the exceptions of specified rules for the power sources. Very Happy

Very Happy go Frankto's creativity, go berserk! Wink
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Naruto20D20
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Joined: 05 Dec 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They also get less skill points, which allows for skills to be unified under one category. They don't get to increase them really - other then the fact that it goes up by one everyone so often due to the 1/2 their level thing.

I do like the way skills are done in 4E better than d20 Modern/3.5/etc, but it'd take some work to fix a system like that into Naruto d20. I guess when it happened, if it ever did, more work on the Tatics/Formations that required skill point buys could be done. I really liked that idea.
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Jensik
Sharkbait


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
Posts: 1810
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 02, 2009 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a 4E skill system, or more accurately converting ND20 into a 4E skill system, would be a mentally draining, soul eating, sanity crushing venture. Every single preform DC would need to be adjusted. Every talent, feat, or class feature that granted a bonus to skills would need to be reworked. I'd shoot myself if anybody told me I had to do that on my own, and I'm sure as hell not about to ask Frankto to do it.

I personally dislike the new 4E skill system do to it's inability to allow cross class skills, and the fact that you need to take a feat to get a new trained skill. WE ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH FEATS! WE DON'T NEED MORE.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, but still merging climb, swim, jump into atheletics is a good thing.

most people even tend to not take jump, do they? while nobody ever takes swim or climb.
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sebsmith
Chuunin


Joined: 16 May 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd support simplifying the skill system by combining skills as well, I know we'd have to rephrase all of the jump jutsu, but that shouldn't be that difficult.
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golentan
ANBU Rookie


Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sebsmith wrote:
I'd support simplifying the skill system by combining skills as well, I know we'd have to rephrase all of the jump jutsu, but that shouldn't be that difficult.


"The user of this technique gains a +X bonus to any jump use of the athletics skill."

Done.

Our games usually combine at least some of the skills for simplicity's sake. How many people do you know who take hide but not move silently? Should being sneaky be twice as expensive as learning to pick a lock? I've always found it easier myself, but what do I know?
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

goletan: hide and move silently is imho another thing.
both skills are taken regularily, because they are used commonly. But there are skills that could go into well pokemon tiers:

never used or
under used

these may be combined, so you can actually acknowledge the skill for its existance.

The knowledge skill needs imho revision too.
well, I would change some. Like making world lore (you know about the world, and its different places)
and well... meh.

I am neither pro nor contra to the simplified skill system, but some skills seriously need to be merged.
I would tend rather for distributing skill points, in Nd20 Smile than for the simplified system. But then the other one got its beauty. Very Happy

And as I said, there are different "sources" of chakra, so these need probably a revision too, my system is probably flawed but I guess Frankto could come up with a better idea. Smile

edit:

Probably a lower Mas has to be considered like 10+Level+2*Con? That way genin are more fragile then jounin. otherwise we could remove the Mas stat from statistics at all. Nobody takes the feat to improve it.
Actually the feat is a waste now.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Merging the skills may happen. I'm currently trying out the Pathfinder system, and I'll check out their item creation system as well?I hear it offers an interesting solution.

Changing the MAS isn't happening. The whole point of increasing it was to make it become a non-issue.

I went through pages 10-12 of the Bug report thread, and fixed bits and pieces. Kage Bunshin no Tate is a defensive maneuver now, and Shunzeki is an avoidance technique.


Otherwise, I haven't been feeling very inspired lately. The only things I've really created are demonic templates for my GM and a bunch of Sharingan-based illusions and techniques with the sole purpose of horrifying whoever I put under them or make them subconsciously attack themselves.

I don't think they'll make it into the main file because then people would cry that I favor the Sharingan over other bloodlines (and I don't, I just happened to find the idea of a broken-goods type character with deadly and terrifying illusions appealing), but I might release them as a standalone file. Who knows?
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Killercloud
Rookie Younin


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 4:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, my group would love to see the Sharingan techniques. they are basically all Sharingan freaks. two of them won;t even be in the group if they can't have Sharingan.

(However for some reason it reminds me of my Ex-Uchiha who created a genjutsu that made the user act as if they were about to take a shower. great for his perverted side and nice in combat. )
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Mizuno Kaitsu
Kage


Joined: 23 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Killercloud wrote:
Well, my group would love to see the Sharingan techniques. they are basically all Sharingan freaks. two of them won;t even be in the group if they can't have Sharingan.

(However for some reason it reminds me of my Ex-Uchiha who created a genjutsu that made the user act as if they were about to take a shower. great for his perverted side and nice in combat. )


. . . . . . awkward.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
Changing the MAS isn't happening. The whole point of increasing it was to make it become a non-issue.


Okay, if it is a non issue then I will remove it from any statblocks, also the feat, as it is just meaningless Smile
That means less work for me... thanks Smile

Frankto you might want to start some polls, determining the most favored classes Smile
So you could patch up some of the - not so specialized - underused classes Smile

Or if you would like to see it, and do not want to do it on your own, I start a survey Razz
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd need a way to let people pick 3 or more choices, which I don't. /shrug

As for MAS, removing it from the statblock isn't really a good idea either for a few reasons, the least of which is authenticity and another is an ability that might lower it.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, just PM me what to survey, you might add weight to choices, like... first: 7 points, second 5 points... etc. so you can do more than only classes.

etc... I'll PM you back a link containing statistics so you can monitor it Smile


Well is there one ability that lowers MAS for longer than an encounter? I guess not. Mentioning an always fixed stat for temporary modifications only is imho not needed and a waste of ink.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 05, 2009 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Besides, only heroic characters and summond have MAS 50. The others have normal MAS.
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Naruto20D20
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of using the poll option just start a thread and get people to post their 3 or so choices. It'd be a little extra work, but nothing too bad.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's already a survey going in another thread.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

after didn't daring it for five times...

the charismatic saves should be swapped. I mean a genjutsu class that is bad at resisting genjutsu? oO

oh... and it happens I have a beginners question, which is probably not that beginner like...
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's how it works, I'm unfortunately not going to go about changing the specifics of any of the base classes.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's done. Updated!
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