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Public List of Requests for General Game Improvement
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cmkawasaki
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Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:10 am    Post subject: Public List of Requests for General Game Improvement Reply with quote

Hey, Frankto - Here is the list:


    Basic Class Improvements:
  • Build new talents for the base classes, talents that better reflect Naruto D20 after 3rd level.
  • It would be really, really nice to add generic Shinobi abilities to the Base Classes - because it's often the lack of those that make people really jump out of those Base Classes as well. Ex: Hide, Move Silently.

    Class Improvements:
  • Build Seal Master / Shaping Master and other alternatives to Elementalists.
  • Build more alternatives that require a specific Brand/Mix of Jutsu - A Ninjutsu Swordsman would be really nice as an alternative to Elementalist/Weaponmaster. - COMPLETE

    Occupation Improvements / Suggestions:

  • Add a second skill from the Four (CC/Genjutsu/Ninjutsu/Taijutsu) as Class Skills, so you are less dependent on occupations for the jutsu skills and they can play a bigger role in helping with other skills. - COMPLETE


If any good ideas get added to this thread, I'll be adding them to the list.


Last edited by cmkawasaki on Wed Apr 14, 2010 4:25 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, people. If you have good ideas, add them to the list!

When something is done, I'll mark it with [DONE!]
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Mizuno Kaitsu
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the Charismatic Hero, overall .. needs some real help. All in all, fairly useless. Smart outclasses them as a support and as far as the skill bonuses, most other base classes have some combination of defense/saves that make them shine i.e. Dedicated, Fast. With the exception of the Technique Threshold that being added to the Genjutsu Talent Tree.. it doesn't have much to go on. And with Genjutsu Master getting the same kind of ability, that kind of unshines it.
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Shun
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 21, 2010 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you guys use all the talents available? My group does and there's plenty of options. Sounds to me like you either aren't or just can't get enough.

It all seems like it's already there in all honesty.

A ninjutsu swordsman is easily covered by an Shinobi Swordsman with Ninjutsu based Kenjutsu or just a ninjutsu user who uses ninjutsu based kenjutsu.
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cmkawasaki
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shun wrote:
Do you guys use all the talents available? My group does and there's plenty of options. Sounds to me like you either aren't or just can't get enough.

It all seems like it's already there in all honesty.

A ninjutsu swordsman is easily covered by an Shinobi Swordsman with Ninjutsu based Kenjutsu or just a ninjutsu user who uses ninjutsu based kenjutsu.


Oh, I CAN build this character a thousand times over.

Elementalist/Weaponmaster
Elementalist/Shinobi Swordsman
Elementalist/Samurai

...And that's the problem at hand. We can build really awesome characters, but the ways to do it are very, very limited. Frankto and I both agree there's room to add more classes in these areas to better define characters.

As for Basic Classes, look at your characters, and ask me how many of them take 10 levels of a Base Class. Is it ever worth it?

If you have ideas, post them here. If not, well, then that's fine. Just don't bash the process of creating new Naruto D20 material for the sake of it (Which is implied in the 'you aren't or can't' part of your reply) - every creation comes from discussions like this one.
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd still vote for talent trees for the advanced & prestige classes, which basically lifts the limitations.

But meh. That won't happen. I actually cannot understand why to add 90 classes, when adding / adjusting / moving to talent trees would do the trick with 10-15 classes.

A Basic Class will never be worth taking. Because its saves and simply suck.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you can't understand, make a game like ND20. Then you'll understand why it's a ridiculous proposition.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The main allure of taking the base classes is the bonus feats. Their talent cannot compare to the class features of the advanced/prestige classes.
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
If you can't understand, make a game like ND20. Then you'll understand why it's a ridiculous proposition.


It doesn't seem that ridiculous because many classes are using them: Genjutsu Master, Taijutsu Master, Puppeteer, all basic classes have talent trees, Livewire.

well most of them are using one talent tree, except for the basic classes, still I don't see the problem expanding them, if you can prevent a new class being add, really.

And actually I think it is less work - probably more thought work - than adding many classes.
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah well, then another suggestion which removes the occupation problem I guess.

What about adding the Archetypes used in Pride Before the Fall?
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The archetypes as shown in Pride is a big NO. As for the talents, if you can't understand why having 30 classes with 400 abilities between them, 150 of which you have to choose, then I won't bother explaining why to you.
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Mojojo
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
The archetypes as shown in Pride is a big NO.


Not even as an optional rule? I liked most of the house rules for the Pride before Fall, specially the Empathic Triggers, so theres any chance that they may appear in the Main book?
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Athildur
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mojojo wrote:
Frankto wrote:
The archetypes as shown in Pride is a big NO.


Not even as an optional rule? I liked most of the house rules for the Pride before Fall, specially the Empathic Triggers, so theres any chance that they may appear in the Main book?


Houserules are things you can use yourself, too. If you want to compile your own list of useful houseruling, go ahead and do so in 'Your Own Stuff'. I'm sure many people will find it useful.
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
The archetypes as shown in Pride is a big NO. As for the talents, if you can't understand why having 30 classes with 400 abilities between them, 150 of which you have to choose, then I won't bother explaining why to you.


I am not saying you should convert any class into a talent tree based thing... and that are about 13 talents per class, that is far too much for less than 10 level classes, base classes have 20 or more... (I agree on that part, that this is too much.)

We got about 24 classes (+-1 in the adv and prest. class sect.) with a total of about 176 abilities, not counting the ones that are often doubled, like bonus chakra, weapon focus etc. (roughly counted) so averagely we got about 7 unique abilities per class, if you take a class, you might not get all 7, probably only 4 or so.

so you are saying adding a class, is better than modifying existant ones, like elementalist, and some others to create a cool flaming swordsman?

I will probably never understand it, as...

entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

which basically tells me, not to add any unneeded classes, if you can modify existant ones, to gain the same effect. probably it is the scientist in me, that makes me not understanding it.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can't turn something into something it isn't. Your elementalist example is a poor choice.
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 5:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking... Summoning is overly complicated for someone who has no experience with the system. And even for those who are experienced, it always take quite some time to make summoning statblocks. I know, someone is probably saying "do statblocks for those creatures you summon more often". Ok. But keep in mind that there are around 50 or more possible outcomes for EACH kind of summon, as well as 100 other possibilities if said summons are special ones.

Creating a summon takes a while when you are not used to it. You take the basic. Then you chose its level and change all the statblock. And then you have to choose its rank and change a bit more. And then, if it is a special summon, you take feats, skills, techniques and ability scores into account. Repeat that for every one of those 10 summons you often use...

And then wait for the next update for their stats to change in some way and you need to change every one of those.

It is a good system and makes creatures very close to what we see on the anime. But it COULD be more simple and easier to use for starters. So, what i suggest is:

- You don't choose the level of each summon anymore. Only its rank.

- Its rank also determines its level. Soldier are now level 2. Protector are now level 4 and so on, until Avatar is level 10.

- Now we have 5 fix statblocks for each kind of summoning, and we can still make custom summons if we need. It makes things less confusing (how can a soldier have 20 HD and an Avatar just 2?) and makes a faster game. Now, if i want a random Jounin enemy with a Blood Pact, i can make that work in a minute.

- Customization is still there. Special summoning would remain the same.

The system works the way it is. But those changes would certainly help the flow of a game.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not too keen on that change. If I ever change anything about the summon system, it'll be to add a list of progression per level like the dragons.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I don't like the idea of taking out levels...
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto, you could actually do a progression "table" like that with the statblocks in the ape king topic.

That would solve the problem. and just let skill-gains drop out, they are only for broodlord and sires.
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lord_Infinitus wrote:
That would solve the problem. and just let skill-gains drop out, they are only for broodlord and sires.


Boy, are you wrong there.

The skills can give your rat summon a fantastic hide and move silently, and maybe some listen, so he can be an amazing spy for you, much like Sai uses his choujuu giga rats.

The skill points the summon gains might be little, but when applied the summons can excel in one or two skills, which really increases their usefulness.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athildur wrote:
The skill points the summon gains might be little, but when applied the summons can excel in one or two skills, which really increases their usefulness.
Amen and Yea Verily. Skill points are so few, it's not difficult to shove them all into one or two skill that you want that particular summon to use.
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DarkJackel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I actually have a few suggestions for the next update.

First it would be nice to get feats and techniques for the other combo-element Bloodlimits:
Lava Release (Fire+Earth)
Boil Release (Fire+Water)
Storm Release (Wind+Lightning)
Dust Release (Earth+Wind, I guess)

ALso a feat for someone to be trained so they could apply their primary elemental nature to non-elemental techniques would make sense. That way Hien could be a pure chakra technique that can be enhanced with one's elemental nature (which is how it was discribed in the manga if I remember correctly). The same might be doable with the Samurai Saber technique.

Next I have some ideas for revamping the Jinchuuriki so that they better resemble the series. First containing a Biju should provide a constant bonus to the character's chakra reseave, say +50 points. Additionally they can call on the active power of the Biju gaining more chakra and probably stat bonuses and natural armor or something of the like (increasing with the number of tails active), at a risk. To simulate the Biju overwhelming the vessal I suggest each round that the Jinchuuriki actively uses his Biju powers he must make a will save with a DC that increases based on the number of tails being used (unless tamed, which should be an extremely hazardous and difficult quest). Also I have a proposition for the powers that are offered (Permanently for tails 1-6, active only with 8 and 9). Also all of them should get a fear aura based on the number of tails active.

Shukaku: Constant Shield of Sand, Sand creation technique and either a bonus to perform or reduced cost to sand-based techniques.
2-tails: Either a bonus to perform or reduced cost to katon techniques.
3-tails: Either a bonus to perform or reduced cost to suiton techniques.
4-tails: Lava Release as a bonus feat, possibly also a bonus to perform or reduced cost to lava techniques.
5-tails: Boil Release as a bonus feat, possibly also a bonus to perform or reduced cost to boil techniques.
6-tails: Ability to use bubble techniques.
7-tails: No clue.
8-tails: Chakra shroud with a gore attack and ink technique.
9-tails: chakra shrous with regeneration (permanent but increasing with tails) and (at 4+ active) the ability to fire blasts of chakra from the mouth.

Hope these are useful.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's already an elemental bloodline thread. 'Non-elemental techniques' is too vague and not somehting that is ever likely to happen.

The bijuu ideas... some of them workable, a lot of them a ridiculous prospect, to be honest.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bijuu for the most part will likely remain in the realm of homebrew b/c we simply haven't seen them all.
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DarkJackel
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Biju stuff came from the articles about them on Narutopedia. While I don't endorse wiki as a research tool on controvesial issues when it comes to fandom it is not a bad resource.

I used the term non-elemental techniques to discribe things like Hien, Rasengan and Kage Bushin no Jutsu to which we have seen elemental nature applied (wind for the first two, lightning for the other). I'll look up the elemental bloodline thread and see what I can see.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know what you meant by non-elemental techniques, yes.
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nanoblack
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't mean to necro, but I've been following the facebook page and noticed you were asking for suggestions.


IMO if you honestly can't think of where to go next, I would like to see some more utility techniques. The mainfile really has enough ways to deal damage, I think we could use more terrain altering abilities as well as some more bloodline jutsu.

I don't really have enough homebrewing experience to give real examples, sadly.
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ZeronosVega
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an idea I've been meaning to mention for some time now, but I just never got around to posting it here.

Anyway, I wanted to bring up the idea of puppet limbs/limb replacement for players. In the anime, we saw Lady Chiyo had done this with a Chakra Shield and I believe it was mentioned that many experienced puppeteers tend to do such a thing.

Now, if such a system were to be applied, it (to me) would be somewhat similar to Doujutsu transplanting in that you are replacing a limb and that the part would not necessarily be as effective compared to its original application.

Another idea draws inspiration from the Star Wars Roleplaying game, where having an artificial limb reduces Force use (in Naruto d20, this could easily be Chakra Control Checks or maybe even hand-seals). However, at some point in time or at a GMs discretion, the player could overcome such troubles (similar to losing an eye/having an eye covered).

Again, this is just an idea and of course, there would be very limited things you could do with it. However, I think it would be a cool implementation.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I may, of these days.
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Shun
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think star wars rules translate well, mostly because of the fact chakra flows through puppets and the force doesn't flow through droids or droid limbs.

Just my two credits & Ryo
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