[Thinktank] Bijuu Transformation

[Frankto]

Adding Ying and Yang release is a simple question of knowing what they do. That's easy as hell. As for moving away from the series, I don't think so, no. This is exactly what the new jinchuuriki system is trying to fix.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Whitefire]

I think it would be more realistic if each tailed beast should have their own level in which the character can learn to control them, though i would guess that an uchiha would be able to control the nine-tails earlier. But that aside I would guess tail 1-2 would be level 8 then, 3-4 at level 9, 5-6 at level 10 and so on.

Or maybe even allow them to gain control by level 8 +1 level per tail of the demon, though that would make the Kyuubi would only be able to be controlled at level 17, so that would be a kind of not as worth it as the previous suggestion.

What ever you decide to use, I would support a difference of character levels when learning how to control a tailed beast, increasing the level that is needed for more powerful tailed beasts.
_________________
"Arrr!"
- Frankto

[ultima22689]

I think the major problem that is in the way is that we're trying to base it off of levels and the number of tails. I think you can only have it one way, if the goal is to stay faithful to the lore via the tail aspect then perhaps it should be based off of something else than level, what that is, I don't know I've been trying to think of something that would make sense but as this is quite hard.

[SirShadow]

Guys, whatever you are smoking, I want some. He has stated repeatedly that he doesn't want it to be based entirely off level.

[Sacredstorm]

In fact, he just wants ideas when a character should have control over his bijuu. From what I can tell, you pick a specific gradation of the amount of tails your template has and you go through your ninja career until you arrive at enough maturation to benefit fully from your template.

If this is the case, I like the idea of mastering at a level 10-12 if guided with a specific ritual and what not, 14-16 if done the hard way and by yourself. If that's not feasible, I like 13ish since your character is pretty well-set while having room for a 5 or 3 level advanced class with time to cap out in any other advanced class.

[Dairius_Chi]

i still feel training techs would work, until you bother to take the time and effort to try and control teh different levels of power you have, it just acts as frenzy, with teh final training tech letting you pull what Bee can do (sumon the bijuu made of chakra and control it from teh center)

[Ryuugan]

It seems as though you plan on creating nine different jinchuuriki templates that give their own unique abilities.

I would suggest a base line level lets say...5-6 before ANY jinchuuriki can make use of the infamous Bijuu Cloak. Im assuming the general bijuu transformation template would cover the basics ie enhanced chakra pool, health, and of course the bijuu cloak, and any other number of misc abilities.

In this case each specific Jinchuuriki template would have its own progression of powers and the level of their acquisition.

The difference between each Bijuu transformation is that the stronger Bijuu will require additional tails to access their power, which are achieved at higher levels. The trade-off is that weaker bijuu will have a larger number of abilities per tail, whilst the stronger bijuu have slightly stronger abilities, but only accessible during a greater number of tails released.

So weak bijuu can be more easily conquered while stronger ones will require some push and pull between the host and its demon. Does this work?
_________________
"Life is a farce! You are given this wonderful gift of life only to realize there's a warranty, limited terms of service, no refunds and about to be repossessed at a moments notice."

[Infinitus]

[Frankto]

[SirShadow]

I'm fairly certain Gaara has never used the shroud. He instead used a technique to give Shukaku full control as though he had been released or actually taken over.

[Frankto]

One more time, just because his looks different doesn't mean he's not using it.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Ryuugan]

[Felix_Zyphros]

Where'd I put that Idiot Ball...
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

[Frankto]

One more time:

What I'm doing here is creating a streamlined set of abilities for the number of tails in a specific transformation. Each jinchuriki template will have the same basic abilities during their transformation, plus whatever their template gives if I ever make it.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Ryuugan]

I dont see how thats much different than what I stated in my first post. If the problem is determing when an ability is acquired, its probably going to have to be based on level.

As for the abilities per tail transformation, that can work, for just the basic set.

But you would still need a section dedicated to each Bijuu to describe their own unique powers. Gaara actively demonstrated his Jinchuuriki powers as a mere child. So yeah acquiring Bijuu powers at low levels does make sense.

As for the individual Bijuu themselves, his power continued to increase as he gained levels, most of which were passive abilities. Which means even after he acquired the first tail, he continued to gain benefits as his level increased.

Maybe you create one general template, and then I dont know...Bijuu Bloodlines or somethin. Unfortunately this is the extent of my suggestions, cause I dont see it happening any other way.
_________________
"Life is a farce! You are given this wonderful gift of life only to realize there's a warranty, limited terms of service, no refunds and about to be repossessed at a moments notice."

[talonhawke]

Well just me on this one but as far as lvl for learning and controling.(i believe that was what you were looking for thoughts on if not sorry) i would go with 1/2 or 3/4 of the total ECL of the particular Bijuu.

[Zatoichi]

How about...

25 + Number of tails - User's Wisdom score = Level you can control the bijuu completely.

Herego, going off of Kazekage Gaara's statblock... 26 base, minus his 14 wisdom. Level 12.

Ninetails? 34 - 10 = Level 24. Which is probably where Naruto is at, maybe even higher.

Partial control could be the same, but the base number (25) lowered to an appropriate degree.

[Aigol]

This sounds like an interesting idea because while it is level dependent characters can do things to focus more on gaining control or not

[Haku]

I like this move to explain the controlling aspect of the Bijuu's and personally I'm in favor of the Training technique idea.

I believe Frankto already has an idea of the format he wants the bijuu control to take and within that the specifics of the transformations will follow.

I reckon the level you judged the initial control emerging when you designed the Ghastly inheritance template is a good benchmark, levels 8-9 that is.

Aside from passive abilities which presumbaly are there from level 1 e.g. Naruto's healing/Gaara's sand control the 'tail tiers' are what come next.


If control emerges around 8 or 9 then the first control training/steps will likely have prerequisite around then. For now I'm going to be figuring this using training techniques but it can be switched for anything comparable as you see fit.

I merely chose training techniques due to what we see in the series where Jiraiya/killer bee appear to train naruto in controlling methods. It also means it is not directl tied to level but can allow you to set the minimum relatively easily.

Bijuu Control [hijutsu]
Training: Chakra Control (Sealing)
Rank: 8 (B-Class); Learn DC: 22, 3 success.

Completion of this training allows a jinchuriki to manifest his bijuu's power as a Tailed cloak and remain in control.

Mastery
5 - may manifest upto 3 tails and remain in control
3 - may manifest upto 2 tails and remain in control

A series of training techniques can be added for higher tailed beasts. Perhaps another training technique could be used for attaining parial control as well. This is just a thought exercise and I don't imagine you have this format in mind but it gives me a premise to work off.

As for where these tiers should fall then, like you, I also hesitate to tie it to levels completely. However I think a seperate training technique should be used for attain complete control (sealing the bijuu's chakra rather than simply controlling that which leaks out). This should probably be only attainable at quite a high level.....18-19 at least.

I'm thinking this is probably very difficult (super s-Class poss) and may or may not be epic. But it might look something like this:

Sealed Bijuu [Hijutsu]
Training: Chakra Control (Sealing)
Rank: 15 (Epic); Learn DC: 41, 9 success.

Completion of this training allows a jinchuriki to seal his bijuu's Chakra away completely. This means the power of the Bijuu can now be utilised once per day.
Mastery
5 - may be used 6/day
4 - may be used 5/day
3 - may be used 4/day
2 - may be used 3/day
1 - may be used 2/day


The powers of each tier and of each tailed beast are presumably already formed in your mind but I hope this is of some use.....I'll brace for the idea-shredding to come though.

[IcarusWings]

Personally, rather than saying "you have reached a new level, now you can control a new tail" for any of the Bijuus, I'd go for "you have reached a new level, now you can control a new tail". Basically, you can go up as many tails as you stay in the form, no matter your level, but you can't control all of them. Basically something along the lines of having to make a rather hard will save or go on a s*** crazy massacre of anyone and everyone around you for each new tail. But the further you go up in levels, either you get a bonus to the save or you don't have to make the save for that specific tail anymore.[/i]

[Frankto]

I already have a system like that in place. You're only limited by the strength of your bijuu, but unless you're high enough level, you might end up killing killing your friends after you're done with your enemy.

Or, if your bijuu is strong enough or your seal too weak, you might end up being possessed by the bijuu while it undoes the seal, which can take anywhere from a minute to a day, depending on the strength of your seal.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Archangel]

Well, you can always go a similar route to that of being a were-creature in D&D 3rd... I.e.: you can make a "Change Shape" skill and have a difficulty set for each level of tail you are trying to master/control. Therefore, it isn't necessarily based on level, so much as how skill your character is at controlling/working with the Bijuu. Think of putting ranks in the skill like a Bijuu host getting in touch with the nature of his.her Bijuu, it's thoughts and desires as well as developing a better understanding of it's chakra. Hopefully this idea can give you more to work with, if not a feasible solution.
_________________
"I'm no ordinary pervert... I'm a SUPER PERVERT!!!"

-Jiraiya

[Frankto]

Already have a working system for the change. Controlling the change will come in the form of a Jinchuuriki class. Using a skill isn't a good idea, because there are already too many required skills and also because it leaves too many things to chance.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Archangel]

Makes sense. My buddy Erik told me he wanted to make a class to reflect Bee's level of training and such, to make Jinchuuriki better at controlling beasts and such... I look forward to seeing what you've got. As far as the class goes, Erik had an idea that I'll put out there: more tails = more raw power, less tails = less raw power but more techniques that go along with them (such as Gaara's ability to control sand).
_________________
"I'm no ordinary pervert... I'm a SUPER PERVERT!!!"

-Jiraiya

[IcarusWings]

That makes sense, I mean all you ever see Naruto do in his higher than 3-tail forms is great chakra devestation ball and melee savaging of people.

[Frankto]

You'll all be interested to know that all I have left to do on the jinchuuriki system is redo the Shiki Fuujin technique, and then...

Every single bijuu, every single bijuu template, and redo Naruto to provide an adequate example.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Killercloud]

BEST. NEWS. EVER.

You just saved me a million work hours. Sadly, the amount of time between when it is done, and when I see it is neither here nor there. -_-; Well we'll see how it goes!

This is awesome.
_________________
For Glory's Sake
For Vengeance's Sake
War!

I will have my Vengeance.

[Chaos4knuckles]

yeah 7 tails, woot
_________________
http://svlogthir.mybrute.com

[Hito Hyuga]

I'm actually quite eager to see how this will look.

[Frankto]

This may interest some of you:

Tailed Beasts
The tailed beasts are a group of creatures created by the sage of the six paths. They are immensely powerful and share a number of characteristics alien to most other life forms.

Tailed Beast Traits
All tailed beasts have great power as forces of nature and carry the power of the sage of the six paths. All tailed beasts are at least Huge sized, and their natural attacks deal damage that deviate from the normal progression, as shown below.

<table omitted>

Immunities (Ex): All tailed beasts are immune to chakra drain, chakra coil damage, tenketsu damage, possession, energy drain, ability drain or ability damage. They are not subject to feat effects and are immune to at least one form of energy damage, and any form-altering effect automatically fails.
Chakra Dependency (Ex): The tailed beasts are highly dependant on their massive chakra to sustain their great power. As such, each time the tailed beast suffers enough chakra loss to reduce its chakra pool by one-quarter, it loses one size category. The tailed beast cannot lose more than two size categories in this manner.
Each time a size category is lost, the tailed beast takes a size penalty to its Strength and Constitution score, and its natural armor bonus to Defense is reduced by 3. The tailed beast's natural attacks also deal damage according to its new size category. The reduction in Constitution does not affect the tailed beast's hit points or chakra pool.
Damage Reduction (Ex): All tailed beasts have damage reduction 10/epic at least.
Special Qualities Tailed beasts can almost always sense chakra or see chakra as passive abilities. All tailed beasts receive maximum hit points for each Hit Die and may choose nonepic and epic feats as part of their feat selection.
In addition, tailed beasts gain 10 chakra every hit die instead of 2, doubled at for the first hit die. It does not have a chakra reserve; instead, any amount that would increase the tailed beast's chakra reserve is added directly to its chakra pool.
Tailed Beast Regeneration (Ex): Tailed beasts regrow lost limbs, except a head, 1 minute.
Tailed Beast Blast (Su): All tailed beasts have a tailed beast blast ability, but it is unique to each one.
Tail Sweep (Ex): The tailed beast sweeps its tail as an attack action, targeting all creatures in a radius around it equal to its reach. Creatures in the swept area take damage equal to the tailed beast's tail whip attack damage plus 2 times its Strength modifier. Affected creatures can make a Reflex save for half damage (equal to the tailed beast's tailed beast blast save DC).
Toxic Chakra (Ex): The tailed beast's chakra is highly toxic and deals damage to creatures who can drain its chakra. A tailed beast's chakra deals 4 points of damage per point of chakra drained with chakra drain, half that to creatures with the demonic subtype.
Natural Armor: All tailed beasts have a natural armor bonus, usually +10 or higher.
Natural Attacks: All tailed beasts have at least 2 slam or 2 claw attacks as primary attacks, 1 tail whip attack as a secondary attack. Most tailed beasts also have a bite or gore attack as a secondary attack.
Slam: The slam attack deals the indicated damage plus the tailed beast's Strength modifier. Some tailed beast can deal both claw and slam damage, but it must choose either each round.
Claw: The claw attack deals the indicated damage plus the tailed beast's Strength modifier. Some tailed beast can deal both claw and slam damage, but it must choose either each round.
Bite: The bite attack deals the indicated damage plus one-half the tailed beast's Strength modifier (round down). Bite attacks are secondary weapons, and impose a -5 penalty to attack rolls (-2 with the Multiattack feat).
Gore: The gore attack deals the indicated damage plus one-half the tailed beast's Strength modifier (round down), and is a secondary attack.
Tail Whip: The tailed beast whip one opponent each round with its tail. The tail whip attack deals the indicated damage plus 1.5 times the tailed beast's Strength modifier (round down).
Fast Healing: Tailed beasts all have a fast healing factor of at least 1, but usually much higher.



EDIT: For comparison, this is what the bijuu template used to be. Yeah, this kind of thing happened to the jinchuuriki templates too.

Bijuu (standards):
Traits: Bijuu possess the following traits in addition to its own unique abilities.
- Magical Beast (Demonic subtype inherited).
- Gargantuan or Colossal.
- Land speed of 50 feet.
- Good Fortitude, Reflex and Will.
- Proficient with all natural weapons.
- Usually of Chaos and Evil allegiance, may differ.
- Darkvision 120 ft.
- 1 energy immunity or 3 energy resistances 10
- A bijuu gains a number of tail attacks each full attack action equal to the number of tail it has.
- Fast healing 10 + number of tails.
- Damage Reduction 11 + number of tails/chakra and epic
- Fear Aura
- Bijuu Regeneration


Fear Aura (Ex): Any creature that finds itself within 50 feet of a Bijuu must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 bijuu's HD + bijuu's Wisdom modifier) or be Shaken for 2d6+2 rounds.

Bijuu Regeneration (Ex): A bijuu regenerates lost limbs (except the head) so long as it has 0 or more hit points. The regeneration takes 10 rounds - the number of tails (9 rounds for Shukaku, 1 round for Kyuubi). This is due to the bijuu being a mass of concentrated chakra.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - Java IRC Client

Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!