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demoralizer
ANBU Leader


Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 196

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaCP wrote:
demoralizer wrote:
Perhaps some sort of ranking that can grant a certain attribute which could negate opposing speed ranks altogether? Actually I do not think negate is the proper word. Perhaps neutralize, so to speak? This would imply that the character, although not as physically gifted as strength and speed goes, has superior tactical abilities that they can work their abilities around opponents that outmatch them physically.


Sort of like Kawarimi Defense, but different. Interesting.


That was exactly my line of thinking, actually. Perhaps a way to earn Kawarimi defense through Awareness Ranks or something with a better name that is not in my brain right now.
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Frankto
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you guys go too crazy on your ideas with resiliance ranks, there's something you should know: It's not going to happen.

The idea of resiliance ranks, or something to that effect at any rate, was the very first thing I discarded as something tacky, unnecessary and absolutely tasteless, for many reasons I'm not going to get into right now.

Sorry to crush your hopes.
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demoralizer
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Joined: 23 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does that include what I was discussing with Ninja? Only reason I ask is because I did not like the idea of resilliance ranks doing things for Fort and Will that Speed Ranks do for Reflex saves for reasons I mentioned above which sort of outline the tastelessness and tackiness you are referring to. (Of course those are just two of the things I am assuming are along your line of thinking.)
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keksmuzh
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Joined: 15 Apr 2010
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 9:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@ Ninja CP: While I can appreciate the limitations of Shinobi Adept, most of those limitations are with the class for Taijutsu characters. Shinobi Adept not having evasion makes it fairly difficult for a super-specialized Nin or Gen spec to get Evasion, which I personally think makes sense.

This is the only instance in which I think evasion needs to be removed; As you mentioned, the other advanced/prestige classes that offer it make it unobtainable until double digit levels, and all of them (with the exception of Ninja Scout) are fairly melee focused. My issue with SA is that it's basically an automatic slot-in class for any pure nin or gen build, and it shouldn't be so easy for a nin or gen spec to get evasion.
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NinjaCP
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see where you're coming from. But given the massive amounts of damage that some techniques can dish out, you do realize that without Evasion a Ninjutsu-focused or Genjutsu-focused character--who probably has the lowest HP out of the party--is pretty much screwed, right?

Let's say you're a level 6 character with 6d6 as your HD. An opponent of the same level can quite easily throw 6d6 damage at you with an empowered Godai Taigeki technique. Even if you succeed your Reflex save, without Evasion you're still looking at about half of your HP (I'm disregarding whatever you've gained from CON, here) suddenly vanishing after a single attack. If you fail, the fight is pretty much over for you, since you're probably in the single-digits if you've managed to survive at all, and your Medical Specialist (if you have one) is too low-level to burst heal you.

Consider now a scenario where multiple PCs get caught in the cone or burst of the aforementioned technique. In the best-case scenario, about half your party is at 50% health. In the worst-case scenario, the entire party is now clinging onto life by the skin of their teeth.
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keksmuzh
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get that nin and gen characters are squishy, but that's my whole point: they're supposed to be squishy. Using level 6 as a baseline, most nin techniques with a reflex save won't have a range of greater than 50 to 60 feet (10-12 squares) from the user. Now, you could throw a technique at the caster 50 feet away from you, OR you can throw one at the sword user with 3 strength ranks up trying to split open your skull (since AoEs aren't large enough at that level to hit 2 targets that far away from each other).

Assuming 14 con, a reasonable amount for a caster who's not focused on a huge CP, they'll have roughly 35 HP and 31 chakra at lvl 6. 6d6 damage, halved, is on average 10.5 dmg, or about 1/3 a caster's HP. Your tai specs will probably also succeed the save, and be down to 34 ish HP (assuming 14 con and fast 3, tai master 3 HD). The tai characters have significant vulnerabilities to genjutsu to compensate for their strengths against reflex save ninjutsus.

The party is there to compensate for each other's strengths and weaknesses. The artillery having somewhat comparable dodge skills to a taijutsu user (especially with Insighful Reflexes and speed ranks 1 and 2), not including the incredibly dodge-oriented tai builds at higher level, seems off somehow.
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Frankto
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What you all need to realize is that Naruto d20 is not D&D. What works for D&D isn't necessarily the right thing for Naruto d20, and vice versa.

And yes, while I agree that the fast hero progression is skewed, not only for abilities but for Defense as well, I'm not going to make those changes baseline. In fact, the very reason Shinobi Adept has Evasion is because before Shinobi Adept, nearly everyone would just opt to take one level of Fast Hero as a quick fix for everything.
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Frankto
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And then there was an update.


Zing, bitches. Twisted Evil
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