Dming for evil

Faran Kredo · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:26 pm Post subject: Dming for evil

Does anybody have any tips for dming for evil parties? Since this is one area that dumbfounded me.
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ZeronosVega · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject:

I believe the first thing to mention is that it's not entirely different from running a 'good' campaign. Generally speaking, the goal of your characters will be more sinister. An example would be working for an evil king in order to conquer the neighboring kingdom, possibly assassinating his subordinates in order to plant your own in their place.

So in reality, what you'll most likely be dealing with are people who are not afraid to do the unspeakable. But as I mentioned in the 4E discussion, actions have consequences. Just because your players would be evil does not mean that they'll want to kill in the open (for no reason, that is) or perform their evil deeds in the presence of those fighting for good.

And an interesting thing to do with evil PCs is present them with a 'retribution' aspect. For example, say a character began to dip into the dark arts in order to resurrect their recently deceased younger brother. Later, it turns out that the brother didn't die, but were saved by your friendly neighborhood paladin; the brother now training under his wing. Now comes the moment where the player will have to decide if his brother, his reason for becoming evil in the first place, is now his enemy. Of course, it helps to have players who actually role-play.
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Faran Kredo · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject:

On an unrelated note, in previously said campaign (in 4th edition) I don't, these are basically players from hell.

Thank you for this anyway, but what if your players just see being evil as being able to go round on killing sprees, what then. It is very difficult for me.
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You've gotta love that moment when you make the BBEG do a double take in the middle of their monologue...

cmkawasaki · Lazy Programmer Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3388

HAHAHAHA.

Okay, well, in that case, it's time to make the man who earned his right to be Captain of the Guard. I recommend said Captain to be 10 CR above the players, if this is near the start of the game.

If our heroes have raised themselves to unholy terrors, that's when the attacks start coming at night, while they are asleep, at all times of the day, until they die or manage to creep back into the darkness.

Faran Kredo · Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:21 pm Post subject:

As I read this, an evil grin spread across my face. Thankyou very much for that idea. REVENGE will be sweat. And zeronos, before u say that my campaign didn't allow it as I said earlier, I have just seen a way round it. Thankyou for the help people.
_________________
You've gotta love that moment when you make the BBEG do a double take in the middle of their monologue...

Redfire085 · Posted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:13 pm Post subject:

the ultimate trick(IMO) is to make sure that these aren't PSYCHOTICALLY evil players that go on mass killing sprees(kinda takes away from the story element of a campaign for me)

Faran Kredo · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:21 am Post subject:

Lol, that's also what I have, but I have now ended the campaign. What if u do have psychotic evil players, is there any way to control them, or otherwise to create an interesting campaign that everybody can enjoy even with them, or is this just a case for a quick:

"you face a small army of people who have risen up against your evil ways. Actions?... oh, just to let you know, they have iniatiative, and... oh ouch, that is a whole load of damage from their champion, hey look, three of you are on death saving rolls already, and the main brunt of the army hasn't even acted yet."
_________________
You've gotta love that moment when you make the BBEG do a double take in the middle of their monologue...

Redfire085 · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:07 am Post subject:

My best advice for psychotic evil? Psychotic doesn't equal retarded, as long as they're in town constantly reinforce that there are MANY guards who look stronger than the players. Players grew stronger? Guards have been cycled out over time and STILL look stronger(even at lvl 20)

Faran Kredo · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:33 am Post subject:

But then what would the party actually be doing, if anything that they could do could be done better by a guard?
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You've gotta love that moment when you make the BBEG do a double take in the middle of their monologue...

Redfire085 · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:36 am Post subject:

My players are usually sneaky types when I let them be evil(gf is usually an assassin, friends are ranger/sniper and evil monk) I only suggested that because my players frustrate me to no end even when they play 'good'
Actual honest advice, have an entity(be it a tyrant of great power or an evil god) MAKE the players their servants to carry out his will, it's kinda railroading, but with evil you kinda have to
When it comes down to it, a tyrant wants something to rule over(and a evil god without frightened worshipers loses its power, so they would INSIST on keeping people alive as opposed to killing sprees)

NinjaCP · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:52 pm Post subject:

If your players want to behave like rabid dogs, then after a while someone is going to come find them and put them down like rabid dogs.

Psychotic evil tends to be a package deal with having a huge bounty on your head. If a constant stream of high-level badass mercenaries out to collect on their deaths isn't enough to at least convince them to be a little bit more low-key about their particular brand of evil, then not much will.
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keksmuzh · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 296

You could always try a reverse Old Man Henderson on them. Not sure how a GM would go about that, but it could get pretty insane if the PCs had a deranged enemy(?) whos' sole goal in life seems to be screwing with their plans.
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ZeronosVega · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:53 pm Post subject:

I must say, that was one funny story. Though I must advise everyone to be careful with 1d4chan, as the site can sometimes leave you with a computer virus.
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keksmuzh · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 296

Fair enough. I don't frequent the site, but a friend showed me Old Man Henderson today and I had to share. As for doing the reverse of that...I wonder whether a ridiculously lucky incompetent foil or a 'so over-the-top Cheesy Lawful Good it hurts' NPC would make for a better troll for evil PCs.
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ZeronosVega · Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:19 pm Post subject:

Honestly, a 'Worlds Biggest Fan' kind of character makes for one of the best trolls. After all, evil characters (usually) love anyone who worships them as if they were gods and is willing to do anything to please. Now, make give them any number of comical flaws and watch that party TRY to kill him. But wait! It turns out that he comes back EVERY. DAMN. TIME.

It can get annoying if played correctly.
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Jensik · Posted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:51 am Post subject:

I always have Othar Tryggvassen, Gentleman Adventurer up my sleeve in case people get too out of hand.
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Faran Kredo · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:29 am Post subject:

Kk, thanks all, I have already finished this campaign, but will bear this in mind for any other unruley parties that I come across... from another point of view, what about playing, if you are a character, what can u do to make the game fun for everyone including yopurself. Please continue to post here on previous topic, since I enjoy reading the tips, and also will give them as tips to the next dm of that group.
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You've gotta love that moment when you make the BBEG do a double take in the middle of their monologue...

keksmuzh · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 296

I think Old Man Henderson is a good example of eeking as much fun out of a game as possible (as long as it's not being taken too seriously). Part of the nature of evil campaigns is the moral/structural openness to do things you wouldn't normally, even in an RPG. So set a crazy goal for yourself and see if the party wants to help you; every good villain needs a pet project after all. It can be completely absurd, or grand and epic, but the point is to push the freedom as far as it can go while still playing a fleshed out character.

I guess this applies to non-evil games as well, but in my experience "good" alignment campaigns usually have a more set plot from the GM, so setting big goals isn't as vital.
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"No Hiruko, you can't fix people like you do for your puppets. When people fall apart they die."

NinjaCP · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:10 pm Post subject:

keksmuzh · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2010 Posts: 296

I do agree with most of what you said, CP. Personally though, I find a certain level of dysfunction among the party, both in the planning and execution phases, to be an irreplaceable part of forming character and party dynamics.

As far as certain players steering a party, as a GM I've actually found it helpful when 2 or 3 people (out of a 6 person party) become more active, because it prevents the more passive ones from dragging things. As long as the leader(s) try to encourage the passive ones to participate or at least voice some kind of opinion, I find it's a positive. My group has a couple of quiet players who don't always like speaking up, so this might not be universally applicable.
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"No Hiruko, you can't fix people like you do for your puppets. When people fall apart they die."

NinjaCP · Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject:

It's true that dysfunction isn't something that can be completely eliminated, but whatever degree that manifests itself in the game should be more the result of differences between the characters and not necessarily due to a lack of coordination between the players.
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