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Question about the Tentacle Rakes for Ripper template.

 
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Nexumorphic
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Joined: 03 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:08 pm    Post subject: Question about the Tentacle Rakes for Ripper template. Reply with quote

I'm running a campaign and one of the players and I have been in a bit of an argument about how a certain mechanic works. I would like a final verdict on this:

Tentacle Rake (Ex): "...In addition, the ripper can extend his limb 10 feet to deliver touch attacks."

I compared this to the Body Alteration Technique, in which is user is able to use the technique to "deliver melee touch attacks with an increased range of up to 30 feet." They both add to your reach for touch attacks and nothing more.

He states that these two are entirely different. He agrees that the Body Alteration Technique adds to your reach for melee touch attacks, but states that the Ripper template deems your attacks, if you extend your limbs, as touch attacks.

Am I simply missing the concept of how this works? If he is correct, wouldn't that be a little too OP coupled with the other features the Ripper template has?
I just don't want the rest of the campaign to be completely broken because of this...
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Dairius_Chi
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Joined: 02 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are correct in determining how the ability is supposed to work, some things are going to be poorly worded as stuff that was mostly done early on and never revisited... like many of the templates. The tentacle rake simply lets you deliver melee touch attacks up to 10ft away.

That said, there are parts of the template that likely contribute more power to a character. If you're relatively new to running the system I'd say be careful on what templates are allowed just cause some of them can get out of hand quick.
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Nexumorphic
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Joined: 03 Sep 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2015 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the quick response.
I've been in a few Naruto D20 campaigns, so I know quite a bit about the system, just thought I'd give GMing it a shot. I've made the mistake of making a few of my players underpowered in comparison to others and, to supplement this, I've allowed them to fix their characters if need be. I'm allowing the Ripper template, but when he explained that part of it, it just didn't seem right.
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Dairius_Chi
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alright, well one suggestion I'd make is limit the availability of hearts... or strongly discourage the Ripper from obtaining them in front of other people, understandably this could unsettle most people.
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NinjaCP
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2015 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Question about the Tentacle Rakes for Ripper template. Reply with quote

Nexumorphic wrote:
He states that these two are entirely different. He agrees that the Body Alteration Technique adds to your reach for melee touch attacks, but states that the Ripper template deems your attacks, if you extend your limbs, as touch attacks.


It sounds to me like the player in question has a fundamental misunderstanding of what constitutes a touch attack. I don't see anything in the rules text to support his claim.

Nothing in the Tentacle Rake ability explicitly states that the tentacle rake attacks are touch attacks, so they must be considered normal melee attacks (albeit with a 10-foot reach) and not melee touch attacks.

To my understanding, the interpretation that the reach from Tentacle Rake and the increase in reach from Body Alteration Technique stack to a total of 40 feet is correct. However, given that a Tentacle Rake attack is not a melee touch attack, combining the two would not allow you to make Tentacle Rake attacks with a 40-foot reach.

The only things that would be affected are techniques which say "Range: Melee Touch" in their rules text, and techniques that produce an effect which can be delivered as a melee touch attack (e.g. any of the "Chiyu" Medical Ninjutsu techniques, Poison Claw Technique, Illusion Dispel, Water Prison Technique, Rasengan, attacks made with Chidori, etc).
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