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Bonus Chakra, and the tank.

 
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demoralizer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:09 pm    Post subject: Bonus Chakra, and the tank. Reply with quote

Hello everyone, it has been a long time since I have posted here, and I'm happy that the project is still ongoing.

I have completed about 3 campaigns of Naruto D20 in my time DMing, and each game I have been troubled by one constant: the technique tanker.

The technique tanker is the guy who throws his stat points into Constitution, he has an extraordinarily high number of Hit Points and Chakra. He couples this with a few powerful techniques, and voila, I have to create absurd baddies to survive his onslaught and damage him. Admittedly, I may be inflating the issue a bit, and I think the Chakra Reserve rules was meant to offset this issue, but the problem persists for me.

I'm usually not satisfied with house rules that modify the core mechanics of the main file, but I am considering doing so because this problem us become so frustrating for me.

So, after consideration, here is what I am considering:

I want to tie bonus chakra to Wisdom, rather than Constitution. The way I see it, every attribute in the game has a central link to some bonus stat in the game.

For example: Strength is tied to Base Attack Bonus and bonus Damage, Intelligence is tied to bonus skill points, Dexterity is tied to bonus defense, Constitution is tied to bonus Hit Points (and Chakra).

I wouldn't want to use Charisma, because that would just create a different kind of problem (being a Genjustu User tank, rather than ninjutsu, which is the issue I've normally dealt with).

The change seems generally minimal, as wisdom contributes to Chakra Control checks, which could still be viable for close range, tank types. But I wonder if I am being too idealistic with the change.

Has anyone else experienced this issue on their games?

Are there other viable solutions I should be considering?

Is my solution viable?

Thanks, everyone.

- Dem
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you maybe give a better example of the player's build?
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demoralizer
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I cannot give particular details (I concluded the campaigns a few months ago) but it was always some combination that began with Tough Hero, and another basic class like Smart Hero, or Fast Hero. He would eventually take elementalist or some other ninjutsu blaster. The issue I always faced was his HP became very high (much higher than my taijutsu/strong types), alongside his Chakra (much higher than my Ninjutsu/Smart types) so he just spewed out techniques, wiping most out my baddies quickly.

Like I said, it very well could have been my own fault for misreading the file, or poorly preparing my NPCs. But the CRs always seemed to add up correctly for the adventure.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I've often told my players that Smart hero or Tough hero are the best base classes for any ninjutsu user for a good reason, and CON is definitely the 2nd most important stat after INT. Ninjutsu users need a high Con because they also have very low HD (usually d6) and they typically have low defense and saves.

Ninjutsu users NEED to have a lot of chakra in order to make use of their techniques. Typically, it costs X+1 in order to do their max damage, where X is their HD. This leads to them burning through chakra very quickly.

If you're facing issues where your ninjutsu focused players are burning through the opposition quickly, then they are also probably burning through their chakra very quickly. I can't say that I've ever found this to be a huge issue, but if you are, then I can suggest you either give them more things to hit or force them into more fights each day.

You might also want to give your baddies evasion more often or just give them means of avoiding the attack all together (via avoidance techs).
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 3:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High Intelligence and high Constitution make sense. But that means their other stats are quite low. Meaning they can be taken out by opponents using ninjutsu (they have low Reflex saves from their classes, and presumably a low Dex), or opponents can use weaponry (from stealth?) to easily hit the user.

That he has a lot of HP is unfortunate but anyone could have a lot of HP. Melee users collecting Str and Con can also deal very high amounts of damage and tank a lot.

Using Wisdom rather than Constitution is a house rule you can easily implement, as it's not terribly far-fetched.

Ninjutsu specialists should blast their way through 'trash mobs' anyway, that is one of their big strengths. And more powerful mobs can be loaded with elemental resistances, chakra resistance and (improved) evasion making the ninjutsu user a lot less effective.
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cmkawasaki
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You know, my problem with Naruto D20 was never the Ninjutsu Blasters. It was the Touben Azami Taijutsu of Death infinitely combo or the Rei Kenjutsu of Death Infinitely combo.

And I enjoyed being on the same side as the Monk of the Eight Gates...

The thing to remember about Ninjutsu Blasters, even at their heyday, is that they suffer from having to deal with the evasion masters. Like every Fast Hero on the planet. Hell, every serious ninja on the planet either gets evasion or sufficient jutsus to evade obvious death blasts, or I have to eventually ask how they made it that far in their ninja careers.

Typically, with ninjutsu blasters, I just arrange it such that there are at least 3-5 challenges in a day. If it's one challenge per day, then the blaster can unload everything without fear of running out of chakra or even metachakra uses per day. But as the day grows long, the ninjutsu build quickly swaps places with the taijutsu builds.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I find Taijutsu users are really the ones that get out of hand.

As I said above. Ninjutsu blasters can only destroy a certain number of armies each day before they run out of chakra and become pretty useless. Taijutsu users on the other hand, can typically keep swinging or punching until they are dead without too much change in the amount of damage they are putting out.
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demoralizer
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, everyone!
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmkawasaki wrote:
You know, my problem with Naruto D20 was never the Ninjutsu Blasters. It was the Touben Azami Taijutsu of Death infinitely combo or the Rei Kenjutsu of Death Infinitely combo.


Well, you're not wrong... Though, truth be told, using the special weapons gave me a pretty big boost as well.
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cmkawasaki
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 11:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athildur wrote:
cmkawasaki wrote:
You know, my problem with Naruto D20 was never the Ninjutsu Blasters. It was the Touben Azami Taijutsu of Death infinitely combo or the Rei Kenjutsu of Death Infinitely combo.


Well, you're not wrong... Though, truth be told, using the special weapons gave me a pretty big boost as well.


As did the Byakugan Eye, but we digress. The same point is that Taijutsu users are much harder to deal with than ninjutsu blasters.
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Jensik
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my defense, I was perfectly aware of how stupidly powerful Rei was and took steps (albeit minor) to make your life slightly less horrible.

But then again I took unusual steps to make your life much, much harder. Quadruple damage to objects in a campaign where I can walk up to a pirate ship and attack it? Every ship that attacked us became the Titanic.
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cmkawasaki
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jensik wrote:
In my defense, I was perfectly aware of how stupidly powerful Rei was and took steps (albeit minor) to make your life slightly less horrible.

But then again I took unusual steps to make your life much, much harder. Quadruple damage to objects in a campaign where I can walk up to a pirate ship and attack it? Every ship that attacked us became the Titanic.


In retrospect, ninjas vs pirates seems like such a stupid faceoff in terms of battle capabilities. I mean the reliance on a boat in a world where you can fight on water means that you'd effectively have pirates running on the water as a must, and it would be a tie-fighter versus tie-fighter kind of battle between two battle stations.

Ships would also probably have multiple ballasts built into the ship to prevent sinking, and otherwise be engineered to be diffcult to sink.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmkawasaki wrote:
Jensik wrote:
In my defense, I was perfectly aware of how stupidly powerful Rei was and took steps (albeit minor) to make your life slightly less horrible.

But then again I took unusual steps to make your life much, much harder. Quadruple damage to objects in a campaign where I can walk up to a pirate ship and attack it? Every ship that attacked us became the Titanic.


In retrospect, ninjas vs pirates seems like such a stupid faceoff in terms of battle capabilities. I mean the reliance on a boat in a world where you can fight on water means that you'd effectively have pirates running on the water as a must, and it would be a tie-fighter versus tie-fighter kind of battle between two battle stations.

Ships would also probably have multiple ballasts built into the ship to prevent sinking, and otherwise be engineered to be diffcult to sink.
To be fair, in that setting, the ninja arts weren't exactly very common.
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demoralizer
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My sweet and innocent thread has been taken advantage of. For shame, gentlemen, for shame!
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