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I reduced the main file to 350 pag
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Antarx
Genin


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:27 am    Post subject: I reduced the main file to 350 pag Reply with quote

Hello.

I had been editing the main file, and I had compressed the text, so now is only 350 pag long. The text is full.

I think that file can be interesting for the community. Its cheaper to print, and easier to handle.

Also, I had included an auto index (a MS word feature) so the file can be auto indexed.

I want to pass the file to the admin of the site, so he can use it, but I don't know how to contact him (I tried, but without noticeable success)
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not approve the distribution of the file, as the numerous spelling errors, and the many words that do not belong to English reflect poorly upon the project at this time, not to mention that it'll be horribly out of date soon enough.
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Antarx
Genin


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
I do not approve the distribution of the file, as the numerous spelling errors, and the many words that do not belong to English reflect poorly upon the project at this time, not to mention that it'll be horribly out of date soon enough.


May be I expressed myself badly.

I don't wan to to distribute b myself a English PDF file which (I know that) have words in Spanish, and some other mistakes.

I'm asking I you want the MS Word file to check it (I haven't English spell checker installed...) and improve it for the next upgrade, and distribute by yourself within your own rules (I haven't objetion... its your work, after all)

I'm sure it have a lot of fail, but its easier to check it with the help of the entire community than one alone.

And the fact is that is much cheaper to print. The money you save printing can be used for donate to this site, for example.


I send you the PDF file because word files uses to disorder blocks for one PC to another, and I wanted to show you the "correct format" I'm using, and also because I wasn't sure it the mail was your, or someone in this forum can intercept it (I readed that (http://www.narutod20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=439) and I was affraid to let a editable file fall in bad hands.

Also, the file I send to you is the modified version that my buddies and I have printed to star the translation work. We cut some parts (like the credits) simply because we don't need that impressed to traslate.


P.D.

I made a 5 pages character sheet. It's in spanis, but is easily editable. I can send it to you to take a look and use it, if you want.

Thanks for the response.
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Elon
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could you send me that Character Sheet? I'm from Spain and I wanna see it.
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Antarx
Genin


Joined: 13 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elon wrote:
Could you send me that Character Sheet? I'm from Spain and I wanna see it.


Sure.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Somehow, I can't believe you reduced 800+ pages into 300 while keeping everything.
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NinjaCP
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You just need a mouse with a magnification button (like mine) to read it. =D
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Antarx wrote:
I'm asking I you want the MS Word file to check it (I haven't English spell checker installed...) and improve it for the next upgrade, and distribute by yourself within your own rules (I haven't objetion... its your work, after all)


Sorry, but no. The fact that you've applied a layout alone means that it's that much more complicated to work with, not to mention the fact that I simply don't have the time to look it over to see where what is and to get used to a format I can't duplicate (I don't use Word) is enough to dissuade me.

That is why I told all the people who offered to do this for me to wait. Because by the time it's done, the file is already 30 pages longer. And right now, since the last update, the file IS 15-20 pages longer.
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Antarx
Genin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since I'm not allowed to distribute the file, I only will show a small portion, so the site member can take a look and discuss it.

here is the equipment chapter. 9 pages. 22 pages in the original file.

http://www.megaupload.com/es/?d=AU4Z0YRW



May be not the best option for reading it at the pc (I have a 17 panoramic monitor and I read it perfectly, thouht ) but I had a printed version, and I think I'ts easy to read.

Also, my file is only 327 pages, but since I missed the credits, the optional jutsus and the adventure (I'm not the DM and I don't want to read it...) I think that the final size including all of that will be 350 or so.


Thats the character sheet.

http://www.megaupload.com/es/?d=FYGR2JNX
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Antarx
Genin


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
Antarx wrote:
I'm asking I you want the MS Word file to check it (I haven't English spell checker installed...) and improve it for the next upgrade, and distribute by yourself within your own rules (I haven't objetion... its your work, after all)


Sorry, but no. The fact that you've applied a layout alone means that it's that much more complicated to work with, not to mention the fact that I simply don't have the time to look it over to see where what is and to get used to a format I can't duplicate (I don't use Word) is enough to dissuade me.

That is why I told all the people who offered to do this for me to wait. Because by the time it's done, the file is already 30 pages longer. And right now, since the last update, the file IS 15-20 pages longer.


Sorry, I was writing a response, and I didn't see yours.

If you don't know how to use word, I can offer myself to add the text that must be included in every chapter, (In fact, I'm going to do anyway, for my own use... Its very easy and don't require much time. I edited the document in 2 weeks, and I can add 100 pages in 2 days) and the comunity members can check for fails.


Thanks anyway
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Elon
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

He knows how, but he's more of open office methinks. Just like me.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am perfectly aware how to use word, but I choose not to.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*Looks*
Hmm, sorry to say Frankto, but I have to admit I like his version better. It seems much more organized and while getting more info per page, is still read-able.
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aviary_fp
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blasphemy!
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Infinitus
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well it looks better...

but for editing reasons it could only be used on a nearly finished book.

you should only design a finished page with a nice and beautiful looks, else it is wasted work.

...and i am not a point of full justification.

that design could easily be remade with OO though.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And that's the gist of it.


Not to mention whatever layout is applied now will have to be undone and redone when I complete the file in Adobe InDesign, and I don't see anyone stumbling over themselves to bring me bags of money so I can cover the costs of what hiring an artist and a professional.


So... yeah, in time.



PS: I think it's the first time someone's said that for me without my needing to explain. Ha.
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Hitsen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

*sweatdrops*
*is torn between his liking of the new design and his desire not to be mauled by Frankto*

Ok, well I have to agree on EVERYTHING so far:

Frankto- I agree that at it's current time, due to updates and your time restraints, the allowing this to happen to the entire file could be difficult.

....other dude who I don't know- It is a good design and yes, it is more like the traditional books. Since I did this for 3 years, I know that it does save space and looks better and all that jazz.

So, basically, what I am saying is that maybe at some point, we might want to take a look at this, since it does look nice and it can really help out the players... and stuff... But not now... cause Frankto's busy and I dont want mauled.
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Antarx
Genin


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just download Open Oficce, to see what happens.

Just as I expected, the file is converted perfectly. Some blocks has been displaced a bit, but I suppose that is easy to re-allocate them.

I don't use layouts... In fact, I not sure what do you want to say with that.

That's what I had done:

1)Select one chapter with the mouse.
2) Push the justified text button on the toolbar
3) Clic on letter size 8
4) Click on "Columns" on the "format" menu
5) Add the page numbers
6) Click on "Indexes and Tables" at the Insert menu, and add a table of contents
7) Mark the chapters as "Title 1" and as "Title 2" the important subchapters

Wow. What a huge work.

How to add text to the document.
1) Copy paste the text on the desired position
2) Clic on letter size 8
3) Click on "Columns" on the "format" menu
4) Click on the re-paginate button.

Wow. It can't be made. That's almost a Super-S rank technique.

*** Sarcastic mode ON ***
I understand that you may be disappointed for paying me for me work, and thats why you don't want it... No, wait... I'm offering for free. Humm. In this case, the reason must be different. Mmmm may be you are too busy... errr... Have you ever heard something about teamwork?

*** Sarcastic mode OFF ***

Simply I can't understand why you don't try it.

That's my printed book
http://img458.imageshack.us/my.php?image=48948592ma5.jpg

http://img459.imageshack.us/my.php?image=23015379kq1.jpg

http://img357.imageshack.us/my.php?image=81622585ab1.jpg

when I saw it finished, I thought: "Hey, It looks cool. Why not share it with the community that made it possible? You had said not, but still I'm waiting for a reasonable response.

I'm not going to insist to much on it. I know when my work is not welcomed. Your plans to deforest the Amazonas can go on. I'm going to improve my file anyway for my personal use, but I'm not going to share. But at least, be sincere with the community, and say something rasonable.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deforesting the amazonians? Dishonesty? I've had a long post I edited a few times to remove offensive content, and I've settled on a short-and-to-the-point post. I've got one word for you: HIATUS.

That's right. Fuck, I've been wanting to take another one forever. Gods, you guys have a way of making me regret ever starting this project.

For those who thought to put themselves in my shoes, thanks.
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Last edited by Frankto on Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting work, Antarx. The printed book seems cool Very Happy
Good job.

EDIT:

And i don't seem why you should regret anything Frankto. No one here offended what you did or anything like that.

Even if things came to the point of slight hostility from both sides, i don't think the main point is anything like that.

Afterall, even if his format was very nice and well made you are the one who made the whole thing.

I'm not taking sides here, i just think this whole thing is unecessary for a simple point of view. Everyone has the right to agree or not with something. There is nothing such as a "true" point of view. Only oppinions and the right of express them. You are the one who decide what is going to happen anyway, because you created and own it, so i don't think oppinions should be seen as declarations of war, unless they offended other persons in some way (Which i don't think to be the case, but i could be mistaken).

Just my $0.02
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The file became a nonissue. As they say, it's the thought that counts. If you can't see why I'm pissed, then go over the last few posts again.

Also, congratulations on your new book. Twisted Evil
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The file became a nonissue. As they say, it's the thought that counts.


Perhaps, but that's not about the file i'm talking about here.

First of all, i'd like to say that i took some time to wrote all of the following things due to the consideration i have for this project and all people involved.

Anyway, just making clear that my whole point is to say that i believe that oppinions should always be freely expressed when they don't mean to offend or harm someone. If anyone feels ofended, then we have a problem. Even if the other person didn't mean to offend or harm, people can always take something personally. And i think all people in a place such as a board could make an effort in order to avoid offenses, hostilities and mainly, situations such as this.

I've already seen some people on this board that took something personally, others that felt disrespected or something like that. I agree with some of them, i think some of the others were really a pain in the ass and deserved to be punished. But still, that's only my oppinion. I don't think there is such thing as an absolute truth or someone that is right all the time, but i think people can always make efforts to avoid this kind of situations. By respecting other people's oppinions and by expressing them with no personal offense to anybody.

That's how i think any environment meant to exchange ideas and point of views should be.

So far i've not taken sides, but my oppinion (As i said before, my oppinion, not the absolute truth):

Antarx had a good intention and did something he thought that could be usefull. Frankto saw it but didn't think it could be used for some reasons he pointed. Antarx doesn't agree with his reasons for that, thinks that his oppinion was not taken seriously (or something like that) and starts being hostile. Frankto takes it personally and is now hostile to him as well.

What i think:
Antarx had a good intention, but his mistake was being sarcastic with no need for that, but because he thought that his oppinion was treated in a way he disagreed. And then we had the "argument".

Who is right? I don't know. And i don't think this is the important thing. Or it will repeat on the future. As i said before, ND20 is Frankto's original work, so he decides what to do with it. Even if he doesn't want to tell people why he makes a decision, he could make it. But he won't do that, because this project is made of several people/fans/helpers/players and such, and they wouldn't like to be ignored and see their oppinions smashed. If that happened, they would probably leave the boards (As some did, some of them because they deserved, some of them didn't, as i said before), and the project would end. But sometimes, he has his personal reasons for doing or not doing something, and that should be respected. I disagree with lots of things (Such as a recent conversation about Sharingan's ninja mimicry with Frankto), but he is the one who made, and if he thinks it should be kept that way, it will be. If i don't like it, i can always make House Rules for my own campaign.

People feels disrespected/ignored/offended all the time, by various reasons. But the whole thing could be solved, in every situation, in every discussion, by simply taking into consideration that every oppinion has its own importance, and that everyone should make an effort into expressing them with no offense to anyone who could take it personally. That's the whole point, and that's the only thing that matters to solve situations such as this.

I hope this helps ayone who takes his time reading it.

KD

EDITED:
Some (But not all) spelling mistakes and something on the first or second paragraph.
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Antarx
Genin


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not not angry. I'm a bit offended by the way that Frankto has ignored my e-mail, and by the way that the file has beed rejected

Frankto wrote:
I do not approve the distribution of the file, as the numerous spelling errors

Misspeling? But if is a copy-paste!!!

Frankto wrote:
and the many words that do not belong to English reflect poorly upon the project at this time

The only spanish words that appears in the file is "Capitulo" instead of "Chapter" at the begining of each chapter. And I said that I can correct that in 5 minutes

Frankto wrote:
not to mention that it'll be horribly out of date soon enough.

But for now, is updated until the next main file will come to light. And I said that I will update it anyway. And also I said that I want to give it to you, so you can improve it directly without external intervention (meaning that You can do what you want with it. Even re do it completely.

Frankto wrote:

Sorry, but no. The fact that you've applied a layout alone means that it's that much more complicated to work with

I can't see how it made complicate to work, but i that was the real problem, I assumed the challenge to maintain it updated

Frankto wrote:

I simply don't have the time to look it over to see where what is and to get used to a format I can't duplicate (I don't use Word) is enough to dissuade me.


The same as before.

Frankto wrote:

That is why I told all the people who offered to do this for me to wait. Because by the time it's done, the file is already 30 pages longer. And right now, since the last update, the file IS 15-20 pages longer.


Yo don't say me to wait. You simply say NO. And Still, I say that I'll can add the 30 pages in one day. For free and for the comunity.

Frankto wrote:
I am perfectly aware how to use word, but I choose not to.

OK. Doesn't matters. I'm not a fan of microsoft, but simply is the program that I use at the university. It works with Open Oficce.

Lord_Infinitus wrote:

but for editing reasons it could only be used on a nearly finished book.

you should only design a finished page with a nice and beautiful looks, else it is wasted work.

Frankto wrote:
And that's the gist of it.


I'm not agree. I made it lots of times while working on a new document.

Frankto wrote:

Not to mention whatever layout is applied now will have to be undone and redone when I complete the file in Adobe InDesign, and I don't see anyone stumbling over themselves to bring me bags of money so I can cover the costs of what hiring an artist and a professional.


I'm using a free program to print a document in a PDF file. Is called PDF995, and you click "Print" and It creates the PDF file automaticaly. It only takes 5 minutes, and works perfectly.

Frankto wrote:
Deforesting the amazonians?


It was a joke. But the true is that my file is cheaper to print, and that it need less pages. I'm saving a tree... or something.
(The last phrase was also a joke)

Frankto wrote:
Dishonesty?

Yes, I belive that you aren't honest with me, at least. You still had not give me a rasonable response about why not, and I belive that I, at least, worth a reason.

Frankto wrote:
The file became a nonissue. As they say, it's the thought that counts.


Keldon_Draconian wrote:

Antarx had a good intention and did something he thought that could be usefull. Frankto saw it but didn't think it could be used for some reasons he pointed. Antarx don't agree with his reasons for that, thinks that his oppinion was not taken seriously (or something like that) and starts being hostile. Frankto takes it personally and is now hostile to him as well.


I'm not hostile.

I leave my english studies at the high school. My dog speak english better than I. My english is crude, and sometimes I find hard expresing myself, so that's why I use easy resources, like ironics.
But is suposed to be something called humour sense.
(the last phrase also is a joke)

If I said something that can be understand as a offense, I ask excuses. But is true that I feel that my opinion was not taken seriously. (thanks, Keldon... I was trying to say it, but I can't find the words.)
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Antarx
Genin


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
I've got one word for you: HIATUS.


What means that word?

Frankto wrote:
That's right. Fuck, I've been wanting to take another one forever.


Also, I don't understand that
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
If I said something that can be understand as a offense, I ask excuses. But is true that I feel that my opinion was not taken seriously. (thanks, Keldon... I was trying to say it, but I can't find the words.)


You have nothing to thank me for, i was trying to be fair and neutral on the question, not to help you specifically. But i hope you and Frankto can still be at peace with each other, even after this "pointless" argument.

Antarx wrote:
Frankto wrote:
I've got one word for you: HIATUS.


What means that word?

Frankto wrote:
That's right. Fuck, I've been wanting to take another one forever.


Also, I don't understand that


It means that he is giving up ND20 for undetermined time.
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Hitsen
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I have decided on one thing. On behalf of many of my friends here on the forums, I have decided to take this grenade to the chest so that the rest of the forum members do not have to.

Frankto, while we love what you did and I respect you as kind of a teacher in the sense that I want to do what you did, but we must say this. You take your game far too seriously and you treat any attempts to improve upon it as a personal attack. You treat this game as if it was your child and we aren't trying to hurt your baby in anyway. We all really love the game too and we only want to improve it.

We aren't trying to take your credit, we aren't trying to ruin the game, and we aren't trying to fuck you over. We only want to help. There is a reason that whenever you look inside the opening cover of a book, there isn't just one name there under most of the categories. They have entire teams of designers who work together.

In kind of a strange case, that is what we are. This guy changed the design so that it looked more appealing and actually took less than a metric ton of paper to print. It looks like a real book more than ever now.

And then there are players that have created awesome content so that they can help the game grow. Lord Infinitus, IntOblivion, Kp91, and all the rest that I don't remember have added a lot to this game for your benefit in an attempt to turn a fun and interesting game into a great and near perfect experience.

We aren't trying to challange you. We aren't trying to hurt the game. We are your player base and we would never try to do anything to this game. Please believe me when I say all of this.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The mere fact that you think this is what I'm pissed about makes me want to virtually castrate you and fry your ass. No, I'm not pissed about people trying to "undermine me" as you so put it. And no, I most CERTAINLY do not take the game too seriously. If that is how you perceive things, then tune in to my frequency and start reading between the lines.

There is a wise saying that says "Don't shovel more shit than you can eat." And I find it to be pretty true in this case. I always give credit where credit is due, and I'm not afraid of asking people when I think something is a worthwhile path to walk.

If you come here and offer something to me and see me say no, don't be surprised if I bite out your throat and feed it to you when you call me a liar, dishonest or assume that I'm less than able to use a word processor or any such stupidly easy-to-use programs, devices or concepts.

In closing, trust me when I say if I used this community to NOT listen to it, it wouldn't be here. If I come off to you as a shallow individual who feels the need to belittle and ignore people visiting the community he's spent years trying to build up and publicize, or someone who's trying to boost his ego believing his ideas are the best and always will be, then ignore my statement about reading between the lines.
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kp91
PM Frankto for a Special Title


Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 3076

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hitsen wrote:
Well, I have decided on one thing. On behalf of many of my friends here on the forums, I have decided to take this grenade to the chest so that the rest of the forum members do not have to.

Frankto, while we love what you did and I respect you as kind of a teacher in the sense that I want to do what you did, but we must say this. You take your game far too seriously and you treat any attempts to improve upon it as a personal attack. You treat this game as if it was your child and we aren't trying to hurt your baby in anyway. We all really love the game too and we only want to improve it.

Sorry, but I have to agree (was about to take the grenade, so thanks for jumping in the way, but I'm still gonna risk it). It does seem like whenever anyone makes a personal suggestion, you do attack and then ban or brand them when they try to explain why they think it's an improvement.

Quote:
If you come here and offer something to me and see me say no, don't be surprised if I bite out your throat and feed it to you when you call me a liar, dishonest or assume that I'm less than able to use a word processor or any such stupidly easy-to-use programs, devices or concepts.

Well, he said after that he thought that's what you meant with the You don't use Word comment. He then later told you how you could do it in Open Office too since you said you favored that.

Quote:
I always give credit where credit is due, and I'm not afraid of asking people when I think something is a worthwhile path to walk.

No one is arguing you don't to my knowledge. But the thing is, it truly is only when YOU think something is worthwhile. When the community you are working (I know you aren't getting paid ect, but I couldn't think of a better word) for thinks positively about something, even if it's not something you like, you should probably consider it. So far, people have said they like this format, and as Antarx pointed out, even in open office, it's nothing more then changing the font and hitting a button that says column. If you don't want to change it back, keep an editable version that's the way you have now, edit, then save a copy with the new settings.
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


Joined: 25 Mar 2007
Posts: 1976

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KP91: the tables get all screwed. *points to the file*

I have more to say but I wait after the trolling is over.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7355
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The community I'm working for"? This is exactly where you're mistaken. I'm sorry, I don't do charity work, and I don't do pity.

This is a community I am working with. The fact that you think I'm doing this because I have a community to please is insulting enough. And from your last paragraph, I can tell you didn't even bother reading the information Infinitus and I supplied you with.


Ha. Good one. That's fucking funny.
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