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Dotonlizard, I'm going to stab you in the face if you make another dumb post! |
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Total Votes : 24 |
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NinjaCP Master of Space and Time
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 1134 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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There are some rules for mecha and mecha combat in d20 Future, if any one of you has the supplement... |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah but CP they don't work right for gundams
why would i do this if they didn't work for gundams? _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have the book so I can look up anything needed. Gargantuan is 400 base HP and colossal 800; given their size it makes sense that they would have that kind of armour. Plus if you get into the special armour in SEED your looking at some nice DR against most normal weaponry. Even the core weapons are doing 10-15d6 damage per hit and these are weaker than the above average Gundam weapons. From my perspective anyways, the HP seems about right.
Of course it's likely you will want to draw up original weapons.ect and use them primarily. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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I don't like having to use that because having a 400 plus health thing, fighting theres no chance of the awsome single hit kills and awsome shat like that.
Course i grew up watching gundam wing
I dont know maybe it fits..... _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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NinjaCP Master of Space and Time
Joined: 19 Apr 2006 Posts: 1134 Location: Detroit, Michigan
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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I was just suggesting d20 Future to give you some ideas. As for one-hit-kills, you could arbitrarily assign massive damage thresholds to different mechas, or maybe give them components that could raise it. Or, say, on a confirmed critical that deals X damage, the reactor overloads and explodes. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like a good IdeA!
And could someone pm some info on Newtypes? cuz the wikipedia article confuses me _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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I don't recall any Gundams have been one hit killed but, dolls are no bigger than huge if memory serves. Plus mass damage isn't going to be 50 should it apply.
Though there should be a sort of called shot option (I don't beleive this works in standard Modern but, I remember a friend mentioning it in D&D) where you can target specific parts of your opponent. This would be used to disable specific weapons or gear.
I used to go with: Called shot is a standard attack with a -4 on the attack roll. If you still beat th targets defence you hit the targeted area and do some sort of special damage on top of the normal damage. This could be things like shooting an enemies leg to slow their movement.
Note, I ended up discarding these rules when every attack became a called shot to the head. They figured if they all did it they would eventually roll a 20. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah see thats what I'm wondering about. _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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For massive damage you could have it so that ordinaries don't get a save against it. That way a hero that has to steal a crappy mobile suit to escape or something doesn't end up getting pwned by one lucky shot.
Massive damage maybe your normal massive damage (your Con score in normal modern plus feats/abilites) *1.5 or so for each size category larger than medium - total rounded down. That way there is a reason for having a decent Con.
Ex: Con of 14 in gargantuan gundam would have a threshold of 47 (47.25 rounded down : 14x(1.5 cubed)). He could also increase it with equipment on his mecha, or improved damage threshold. i.e. - with improved damage threshold alone it would increase to 57.
This is only brainstorming - but that would be a good ballpark. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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IHALA Rookie Younin
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Louisiana, Hidden Village in the Bayou
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Massive damage maybe your normal massive damage (your Con score in normal modern plus feats/abilites) *1.5 or so for each size category larger than medium - total rounded down. That way there is a reason for having a decent Con.
Ex: Con of 14 in gargantuan gundam would have a threshold of 47 (47.25 rounded down : 14x(1.5 cubed)). He could also increase it with equipment on his mecha, or improved damage threshold. i.e. - with improved damage threshold alone it would increase to 57. |
Should be 63 in that example, according to your idea. (14)(1.5)(3). 1.5 is not multiplied by itself, but added to itself, at least how you worded it.
Also, why should your fortitude have any effect and the durability of your machine? Con is useful for the fortitude saves against daze/stun from the massive vibrations from warheads exploding near you and what not. _________________ I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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I was thinking there would be massive damage would be for gundams, but there would be no save. After it took massive damage it would be crippled and only take 1 move or attack action regardless of health _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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kp91 PM Frankto for a Special Title
Joined: 09 Aug 2006 Posts: 3076
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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DotonLizard wrote: | I was thinking there would be massive damage would be for gundams, but there would be no save. After it took massive damage it would be crippled and only take 1 move or attack action regardless of health |
Gundams are constructs, therefore, don't make fortitude saves including massive damage. |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Actually - they aren't contructs. That's why you can get critical hits on mecha in d20 future. Constructs such as golems have no weak spots - while gundams and other robots have critical gears, fuel lines etc.
edit: The reason Con could come up for massive damage on gundams is the same reason Con raises Vitality points as opposed to just HP when using that system (old star wars/unearthed arcana). VP doesn't actually represent being hit, but primarily represents being nearly hit/rolling with the punches. High Con could affect a mecha's massive damage as your instincts preventing your opponent from getting a clean hit on a vital part. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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No
We are not going to use the star wars one. I fricking hate that. One critical hit and you are dead. NO MATTER WHAT!
Nah this is gonna be d20. Like D20 modern _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:10 am Post subject: |
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Oh - I agree entirely - I was just using that as a clear example as to why Con wasn't merely being able to take it in the face. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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IHALA Rookie Younin
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Louisiana, Hidden Village in the Bayou
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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I still don't see it. If you have to make a massive damage save, you WERE HIT, you are not "rolling with the punch" against such a powerful attack. The massive damage, if used, should be solely mechanical, not modified by ANYTHING relating the the pilot. The engineer who built it, perhaps add his craft ranks to the massive damage to represent how well built it is.
Also, anything that is multiplied by a ability modifier is generally a poor idea. A character with a 5 constitution in a gargantuan machine would only have a 22.5 threshold. His machine could be destroyed by a personal rocket launcher. A character with an 18 would have a threshold of 81. Way too large a difference. _________________ I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps - though I still think Con should be part of the equation, though quite possible not merely on Con. Like a combination of level and Con. (and in your example the characters would have normal massive damage of 5 and 18 respectively - in modern your massive damage threshold equals your Con - tis the same ratio)
Possible equation: (10 + 1/2 level + Con mod)*1.5 for each size bigger than medium - again - just brainstorming - but without Con in the equation anywhere virtually every pilot will running around with a Con of 8-10. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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You still havent explained why Con should be used Sweet ninja, I'm leaning towards not using it
Why should how tough i am mean my robot is tougher?
No that means every fatass tough hero is gonna live in his robot so long it isnt funny. _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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If you really want to get into it I wonder how having the Gundams components decide its MAS would work. Basically it would represent protection around vital areas and placement of vital systems different from other machines.
Con is more for a personal level, HP is rolling with the hits and that (and defence) is affected by parts you equip. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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IHALA Rookie Younin
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Louisiana, Hidden Village in the Bayou
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | (and in your example the characters would have normal massive damage of 5 and 18 respectively - in modern your massive damage threshold equals your Con - tis the same ratio) |
Yes, but then, your the one being hit, not a giant robot, so your toughness should come into play. _________________ I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! |
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Back to top |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:02 am Post subject: |
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Yes - but as you have direct control over your mecha - your ability to roll with hits would at least in part be transferred to the mecha you're piloting.
In part this is not for fluff - but for balance issues. In giant mecha normally your Con score is pretty much worthless - adding rather insignificant extra HP - in part this is merely to keep it reasonably useful. And I believe I have good enough reasoning to rationalize it. You don't want to have it be like 2nd edition D&D where some stats people didn't really care if they were a 3 or not (ever played Baldur's Gate?). _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:43 am Post subject: |
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What if, your gundam was like a second character?
Idea _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:19 am Post subject: |
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While you have a point ninja guy by no means would ALL combat be inside a machine. Players like that will someday choose to use the dock at a neutral space station or colony and will have to rely on their skills and a sidearm when a hostile force jumps them on their way back to their suit.
You also don't travel in a Gundam all that much, you usually have a parent ship that is capable of much higher point to point speeds and that may be boarded by hostiles during a fight. Foring you once again out of your Gundam.
So, a crafty GM will be able to balance the mecha fights in with normal encounters where your notable to put 800hp between you and them. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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One example of how this would be the case is that in mecha shows (primarily Gundam series) the beefy character's mecha always seems to be able to take more hits without going down. While arguably they just have beefier mechas - I don't see a frail guy in an anime being in a gundam that takes hits all the time and keeps on truckin'. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Thats mostly from using character types. If a character is slim he is a fast type person who dosen't want to rely on armour. It's them making the body fit the personality. Even if it is a balance thing it dosen't make a whole lot of sence that your own toughness would make your maching stronger.
Changing of a mechs MAS should be based on the mech, at least in part. Since otherwise a tough guy can get into a speed mech and suddenly that mech can take a bigger hit at once. HP boosts I would understand but, MAS sounds off.
Though I do agree CON should still have it's uses I stick with my previous argument of it working more while you are outside the mecha. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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Sweet Ninja Guy ANBU Veteran
Joined: 21 Aug 2007 Posts: 157 Location: A place with squishy walls and nice men in long white coats.
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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Oh - I definetly agree that the mech should have an impact on the massive damage threshold - just that Con should as well. I think that certain slots should increase it as well as the fact that with gundams I think armor as damage reduction (or even hardness) would be best - which would raise the damage needed for a check. This would also prevent massed small arms fire from being able to take down a gargantuan mecha. _________________ I plan on living forever... so far, so good. |
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IHALA Rookie Younin
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Louisiana, Hidden Village in the Bayou
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Con should be usable in the mech, I agree, but not for massive damage. If I attack the machine's arm with enough force, the arm with come off, it does not matter how tough you are. However that direct hit to the chest sends vibrations throughout the mech, fortitude save (influenced by Con) or be dazed/stunned by it.
Also Con will allow you to stay in your mech longer when the life support systems are damaged. It takes a lot of thrust to move something as big as a mech, especially when it is as aerodynamic as a brick. Thus there is much heat generated. If the cooling system is disabled, the Tough character will be able to stay in his mech longer than the guy with the fast reflexes. _________________ I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! |
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DotonLizard Banned or Something Like It
Joined: 20 Jul 2007 Posts: 1055
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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While you debate this, im thinking of changing the slots system.
If ever so slightly. _________________ I was banned for being an insensitive dick and generally an idiot. |
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Tetsunamaru Jounin
Joined: 05 Feb 2006 Posts: 212 Location: Canada eh.
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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What kind of ideas do you have for slots?
And above was a great idea. To make sure I have it correct: rather than upping the MAS with your CON there could be a way where shots that hit your Gundam hard enough could cause you to become stunned or dazed which would impede your operation. So a toucher character can sit in his mech and take hits but, a fast hero type won't be able to as easy since bigger hits, while they may not damage his mech any more than normal they may stun him allowing for more and more damage to be done.
While having a good CON score would allow you to resist these hits more often. We could even have weapons specifically ment to catch the pilot off guard and shake him/her. _________________ Beneath the beam that blocked the sky.
None had stood so alone as I.
And the Hangman strapped me, and no voice there
Cried "Stay!" for me in the empty square. |
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IHALA Rookie Younin
Joined: 26 Feb 2007 Posts: 334 Location: Louisiana, Hidden Village in the Bayou
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Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | And above was a great idea. |
My idea was a great idea? Methinks you need your head checked. Of course, because it is me who suggested it, its probably not a good idea to do so. _________________ I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here! |
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