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Dotonlizard, I'm going to stab you in the face if you make another dumb post!
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NinjaCP
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are some rules for mecha and mecha combat in d20 Future, if any one of you has the supplement...
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah but CP they don't work right for gundams


why would i do this if they didn't work for gundams?
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the book so I can look up anything needed. Gargantuan is 400 base HP and colossal 800; given their size it makes sense that they would have that kind of armour. Plus if you get into the special armour in SEED your looking at some nice DR against most normal weaponry. Even the core weapons are doing 10-15d6 damage per hit and these are weaker than the above average Gundam weapons. From my perspective anyways, the HP seems about right.


Of course it's likely you will want to draw up original weapons.ect and use them primarily.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like having to use that because having a 400 plus health thing, fighting theres no chance of the awsome single hit kills and awsome shat like that.

Course i grew up watching gundam wing Very Happy

I dont know maybe it fits.....
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NinjaCP
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was just suggesting d20 Future to give you some ideas. As for one-hit-kills, you could arbitrarily assign massive damage thresholds to different mechas, or maybe give them components that could raise it. Or, say, on a confirmed critical that deals X damage, the reactor overloads and explodes.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like a good IdeA!


And could someone pm some info on Newtypes? cuz the wikipedia article confuses me
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't recall any Gundams have been one hit killed but, dolls are no bigger than huge if memory serves. Plus mass damage isn't going to be 50 should it apply.

Though there should be a sort of called shot option (I don't beleive this works in standard Modern but, I remember a friend mentioning it in D&D) where you can target specific parts of your opponent. This would be used to disable specific weapons or gear.

I used to go with: Called shot is a standard attack with a -4 on the attack roll. If you still beat th targets defence you hit the targeted area and do some sort of special damage on top of the normal damage. This could be things like shooting an enemies leg to slow their movement.

Note, I ended up discarding these rules when every attack became a called shot to the head. They figured if they all did it they would eventually roll a 20.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah see thats what I'm wondering about.
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Sweet Ninja Guy
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For massive damage you could have it so that ordinaries don't get a save against it. That way a hero that has to steal a crappy mobile suit to escape or something doesn't end up getting pwned by one lucky shot.

Massive damage maybe your normal massive damage (your Con score in normal modern plus feats/abilites) *1.5 or so for each size category larger than medium - total rounded down. That way there is a reason for having a decent Con.

Ex: Con of 14 in gargantuan gundam would have a threshold of 47 (47.25 rounded down : 14x(1.5 cubed)). He could also increase it with equipment on his mecha, or improved damage threshold. i.e. - with improved damage threshold alone it would increase to 57.

This is only brainstorming - but that would be a good ballpark.
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IHALA
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Massive damage maybe your normal massive damage (your Con score in normal modern plus feats/abilites) *1.5 or so for each size category larger than medium - total rounded down. That way there is a reason for having a decent Con.

Ex: Con of 14 in gargantuan gundam would have a threshold of 47 (47.25 rounded down : 14x(1.5 cubed)). He could also increase it with equipment on his mecha, or improved damage threshold. i.e. - with improved damage threshold alone it would increase to 57.


Should be 63 in that example, according to your idea. (14)(1.5)(3). 1.5 is not multiplied by itself, but added to itself, at least how you worded it.

Also, why should your fortitude have any effect and the durability of your machine? Con is useful for the fortitude saves against daze/stun from the massive vibrations from warheads exploding near you and what not.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was thinking there would be massive damage would be for gundams, but there would be no save. After it took massive damage it would be crippled and only take 1 move or attack action regardless of health
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kp91
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DotonLizard wrote:
I was thinking there would be massive damage would be for gundams, but there would be no save. After it took massive damage it would be crippled and only take 1 move or attack action regardless of health

Gundams are constructs, therefore, don't make fortitude saves including massive damage.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually - they aren't contructs. That's why you can get critical hits on mecha in d20 future. Constructs such as golems have no weak spots - while gundams and other robots have critical gears, fuel lines etc.

edit: The reason Con could come up for massive damage on gundams is the same reason Con raises Vitality points as opposed to just HP when using that system (old star wars/unearthed arcana). VP doesn't actually represent being hit, but primarily represents being nearly hit/rolling with the punches. High Con could affect a mecha's massive damage as your instincts preventing your opponent from getting a clean hit on a vital part.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No
We are not going to use the star wars one. I fricking hate that. One critical hit and you are dead. NO MATTER WHAT!


Nah this is gonna be d20. Like D20 modern
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Sweet Ninja Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh - I agree entirely - I was just using that as a clear example as to why Con wasn't merely being able to take it in the face.
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IHALA
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't see it. If you have to make a massive damage save, you WERE HIT, you are not "rolling with the punch" against such a powerful attack. The massive damage, if used, should be solely mechanical, not modified by ANYTHING relating the the pilot. The engineer who built it, perhaps add his craft ranks to the massive damage to represent how well built it is.

Also, anything that is multiplied by a ability modifier is generally a poor idea. A character with a 5 constitution in a gargantuan machine would only have a 22.5 threshold. His machine could be destroyed by a personal rocket launcher. A character with an 18 would have a threshold of 81. Way too large a difference.
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Sweet Ninja Guy
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps - though I still think Con should be part of the equation, though quite possible not merely on Con. Like a combination of level and Con. (and in your example the characters would have normal massive damage of 5 and 18 respectively - in modern your massive damage threshold equals your Con - tis the same ratio)

Possible equation: (10 + 1/2 level + Con mod)*1.5 for each size bigger than medium - again - just brainstorming - but without Con in the equation anywhere virtually every pilot will running around with a Con of 8-10.
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You still havent explained why Con should be used Sweet ninja, I'm leaning towards not using it

Why should how tough i am mean my robot is tougher?


No that means every fatass tough hero is gonna live in his robot so long it isnt funny.
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you really want to get into it I wonder how having the Gundams components decide its MAS would work. Basically it would represent protection around vital areas and placement of vital systems different from other machines.

Con is more for a personal level, HP is rolling with the hits and that (and defence) is affected by parts you equip.
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IHALA
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(and in your example the characters would have normal massive damage of 5 and 18 respectively - in modern your massive damage threshold equals your Con - tis the same ratio)


Yes, but then, your the one being hit, not a giant robot, so your toughness should come into play.
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I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
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Sweet Ninja Guy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes - but as you have direct control over your mecha - your ability to roll with hits would at least in part be transferred to the mecha you're piloting.

In part this is not for fluff - but for balance issues. In giant mecha normally your Con score is pretty much worthless - adding rather insignificant extra HP - in part this is merely to keep it reasonably useful. And I believe I have good enough reasoning to rationalize it. You don't want to have it be like 2nd edition D&D where some stats people didn't really care if they were a 3 or not (ever played Baldur's Gate?).
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What if, your gundam was like a second character? Shocked


Idea Idea
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you have a point ninja guy by no means would ALL combat be inside a machine. Players like that will someday choose to use the dock at a neutral space station or colony and will have to rely on their skills and a sidearm when a hostile force jumps them on their way back to their suit.

You also don't travel in a Gundam all that much, you usually have a parent ship that is capable of much higher point to point speeds and that may be boarded by hostiles during a fight. Foring you once again out of your Gundam.

So, a crafty GM will be able to balance the mecha fights in with normal encounters where your notable to put 800hp between you and them.
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Sweet Ninja Guy
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One example of how this would be the case is that in mecha shows (primarily Gundam series) the beefy character's mecha always seems to be able to take more hits without going down. While arguably they just have beefier mechas - I don't see a frail guy in an anime being in a gundam that takes hits all the time and keeps on truckin'.
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thats mostly from using character types. If a character is slim he is a fast type person who dosen't want to rely on armour. It's them making the body fit the personality. Even if it is a balance thing it dosen't make a whole lot of sence that your own toughness would make your maching stronger.

Changing of a mechs MAS should be based on the mech, at least in part. Since otherwise a tough guy can get into a speed mech and suddenly that mech can take a bigger hit at once. HP boosts I would understand but, MAS sounds off.

Though I do agree CON should still have it's uses I stick with my previous argument of it working more while you are outside the mecha.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh - I definetly agree that the mech should have an impact on the massive damage threshold - just that Con should as well. I think that certain slots should increase it as well as the fact that with gundams I think armor as damage reduction (or even hardness) would be best - which would raise the damage needed for a check. This would also prevent massed small arms fire from being able to take down a gargantuan mecha.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Con should be usable in the mech, I agree, but not for massive damage. If I attack the machine's arm with enough force, the arm with come off, it does not matter how tough you are. However that direct hit to the chest sends vibrations throughout the mech, fortitude save (influenced by Con) or be dazed/stunned by it.

Also Con will allow you to stay in your mech longer when the life support systems are damaged. It takes a lot of thrust to move something as big as a mech, especially when it is as aerodynamic as a brick. Thus there is much heat generated. If the cooling system is disabled, the Tough character will be able to stay in his mech longer than the guy with the fast reflexes.
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I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
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Only those whose elements time cannot wear
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DotonLizard
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While you debate this, im thinking of changing the slots system.


If ever so slightly.
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Tetsunamaru
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of ideas do you have for slots?


And above was a great idea. To make sure I have it correct: rather than upping the MAS with your CON there could be a way where shots that hit your Gundam hard enough could cause you to become stunned or dazed which would impede your operation. So a toucher character can sit in his mech and take hits but, a fast hero type won't be able to as easy since bigger hits, while they may not damage his mech any more than normal they may stun him allowing for more and more damage to be done.

While having a good CON score would allow you to resist these hits more often. We could even have weapons specifically ment to catch the pilot off guard and shake him/her.
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IHALA
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And above was a great idea.


My idea was a great idea? Methinks you need your head checked. Of course, because it is me who suggested it, its probably not a good idea to do so.
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I am the way into the City of Woe.
I am the way to a Forsaken People.
I am the way into Eternal Sorrow.
Sacred justice moved my Architect.
I am raised here by divine Omnipotence
Primordial Love and ultimate Intellect.
Only those whose elements time cannot wear
Were made before Me, and beyond time I stand.
Abandon all hope, ye who enter here!
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