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Geomancer
Demon Lord


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
Posts: 835

PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:10 pm    Post subject: Update Concern Reply with quote

With the born of the fire template and the chakra gems, I feel the Naruto d20 is going to far into D&D territory. I mean, really, in a Naruto game, where are you going to find a fire elemental? A fiery being composed of chakra, maybe, but not something that is sentient itself.

Not trying to be a buzzkill. Just offering my 2 cents.
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NinjaCP
Master of Space and Time


Joined: 19 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everything in the file is entirely optional. Nobody says you have to include it in your game.
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Athildur
Sexually progressive Valkyrie


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It offers variety from the neverending nin...because the narutoverse basically has only that.

Enemy nin...and bijuu. Nothing else. Perhaps the occasional strange bloodline, but that's all. I often make campaigns incorporating various fantasy elements to make it more exciting.
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Arazien
Chuunin


Joined: 11 Sep 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like CP, it's optional. Cold hard truth is, the game itself is optional. Frankto puts a lot of work into what he does.

Personally, after fighting hordes and hordes of ninjas, I'd like to kick back, relax, and throw a Water dragon at a fire elemental with my Elementalist.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I really hate responses like those, since really, no it's not. Changing a single rule, no matter how little, is going to completely unbalance and change your game. For Example, using the old bloodline rules means players can no longer use any technique of their clan or ability, since the technique will work differently. New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking.

(And like always, I remain strongly against about half the stuff in the update. Like bloodline levels as now there is no reason not to gain a bloodline. Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.)
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NinjaCP
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Joined: 19 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you do still have to pay it off with Bloodline levels later on. Plus now low-level characters don't get ridiculous bonuses like they did before.

As for the puppeteer, you can just use Chozou Fuuin.
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Elon
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Joined: 10 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have to think Nd20 is a suplement for d20 modern. Not everyone plays in the narutoverse.

And even there, I could easily figure some crazy fire kami being an elemental.
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Geomancer
Demon Lord


Joined: 05 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elon wrote:
You have to think Nd20 is a suplement for d20 modern. Not everyone plays in the narutoverse.

And even there, I could easily figure some crazy fire kami being an elemental.


Hmmm... you've got a point there...

I dunno, the new update just unnerved me for some reason. Maybe it was all the new stuff...
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Frankto
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Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hah!


Do tell, then. Where are you going to find a demonic being made of chakra?


Society in the Naruto world is clearly in ruins, or recovering. Elementals are manifestation of the element born from the ambient chakra in that element.


Don't like it? Disallow it.
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Whitefire
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the elementals are a nice touch it is better than facing constant ninja and keeping track of all those techniques they could use in different situations. Plus from what it sounds like elementals are basically a mass of chakra like bijuu.
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IanYuy
Genin


Joined: 12 Dec 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kp91 wrote:
New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking.


You could always seal the puppet in a scroll, couldn't you? That's what Kankurou does once he gets so many...

kp91 wrote:
Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.)


The difference in that instance is the Advanced Bloodline Feat. One character has a feat that gives them +1 to those things, the other has a feat for something else. How is that much difference than other feats that give pluses to things or make a character more efficient? (It also eats up a slot for your 1st level feats, so you can't take as many character-altering feats like Will over Flesh or the such.) Bloodlines aren't meant to be played that way but it balanced itself out when you do that. Besides, you still gotta pay chakra to open those eyes anyway.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

Quote:
New puppetry rules make it insanely hard to become a puppeteer, and even after, you're basically limited to small puppets because of encumbrance (Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR) since the reworking of not being able to animate it for just walking.



You could always seal the puppet in a scroll, couldn't you? That's what Kankurou does once he gets so many...

Except that takes being about 20th level because of the weight.
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Keldon_Draconian
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Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
(And like always, I remain strongly against about half the stuff in the update. Like bloodline levels as now there is no reason not to gain a bloodline. Two characters with the same build, but one gives his character the last name Uchiha has a +1 bonus to Defense, Initiative, Reflex saves, Attack rolls, and Spot checks, even if they both have otherwise identical builds. The bloodline levels don't work for the simple reasons that with 0 levels, therefore no penalty, you get a bonus.)


If you don't pay bloodline levels, you receive a penalty to your experience. The character without bloodline will be on a higher level. And the character who has the bloodline has to spend a feat for that.

Quote:
Except that takes being about 20th level because of the weight.


Not really. First, you can master the technique. Also, a typical scroll can hold up to 5 Chozou Fuuin seals. So, you need to be on level 9 to get the technique, that's all.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Not really. First, you can master the technique. Also, a typical scroll can hold up to 5 Chozou Fuuin seals. So, you need to be on level 9 to get the technique, that's all.

Then you'd need to break your puppet into 5 pieces.
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JayToTheMe
Genin


Joined: 24 May 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I find the new bloodline rules to be fairly balanced - at least, mcuh more so than the old ones. Sure, you might argue that the abilities that come with taking the Advanced Bloodline feat but no levels are a LITTLE overpowered, but there are plenty of ways a good GM can counterract this.

For example, I've got an idea for a campaign set in Kirigakure, with a strong anti-bloodline bias, so a bloodline character will basically suffer widespread social discrimination, and may even be physically attacked for his gifts.

Another good way to balance any percieved OP-ness for bloodline characters in large clans such as the Uchiha and Hyuuga is to give them actual clan duties. When the characters get some time off, they all want to train and learn new techniques - but Hyuuga Charname of the branch family is assigned to three days of menial guard duty or errands by the clan head while his teammates are out mastering ass-kick no jutsu.

That said, the Aburame clan under the new rules seems pretty spiffy to me - it's my understanding that minor bloodlines don't take XP penalties for not taking any bloodline levels, and all the Aburame's good stuff comes before level 6 anyway. Or does the number of Kikaichuu they have depend on their bloodline level, and not just their character level, as I've read it? The wording isn't very clear.

In regards to the original point raised by this thread, so much of the Narutoverse is unexplored in canon that you can't really say with certainty that elementals DON'T exist. You just need to introduce them right. Maybe a cult is creating them or something. Be creative.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Large puppets have got to weigh something like 400+ lbs and puppeteers tend to not have high STR


A large combat puppet weighs 200 pounds. A large utility puppet weighs 250 pounds.


Naruto has got to be able to create eleventy billion clones, right? Oh wait.


As for the Aburame, I hadn't thought to specify this, but Kikai Host doesn't progress past level 6 without a bloodline level. Same with kumonosu.
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JayToTheMe
Genin


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, fair enough then...damn, I was actually hoping that'd stay. Had an awesome Aburame rolled up.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 1:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No dice.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chozou Fuuin - 20/level

250/20 = 12.5 or you have to be 13th level to use a large puppet as no one is going to want that encumbrance and no one is going to pay constant chakra to make it walk.
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Athildur
Sexually progressive Valkyrie


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ever consider that it might have been the point...that puppeteers can't use large puppets until 13th level? ...
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kp91
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or a medium until level 10 given it's 200 lbs.
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, a medium sixed puppet is 75lbs.... In which you would need to be level 9 to make the seal. And it's lesser form, Kankin Kashihon Fuushin, would only require level 7.

You're losing your arguing skills KP
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cmkawasaki
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Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a trick to the moving of the puppets. It's called letting oneself be encumbered.

Bloodlines are fairly balanced - you force them to pay the level when the level needs to be taken. End of story, it remains balanced.

I can't say aobut Puppeteers. I have to study them some more and see what I've missed.
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golentan
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sealing scrolls specify explicitly that you can store double the weight the technique for sealing things specifies. So you don't even have to be 10th level to store said puppet.
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