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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 10:56 pm    Post subject: I dont know if this has been brought up yet but... Reply with quote

in my opinion, the Battle Mime class just plain sucks, and since being a constant uchiha user throughout many-a-game i would request someone revamp the class because i know that if i try to do it, it will probably come out overpowered.

i also think amaterasu is a weak jutsu for what it was meant to be, but thats a different post altogether.
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Smitty
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Joined: 08 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've got an overpowered bloodline, (For intermediate) classes exclusive to Uchiha, and a bevy of powerful Uchiha-only feats, techniques and shit.

Quit complaining. Try picking something that DOESN'T have 'Sharingan' as a requirement.
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blueskies05
Jounin


Joined: 11 Sep 2006
Posts: 227

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 12:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Smitty wrote:
You've got an overpowered bloodline, (For intermediate) classes exclusive to Uchiha, and a bevy of powerful Uchiha-only feats, techniques and shit.

Quit complaining. Try picking something that DOESN'T have 'Sharingan' as a requirement.


I'm afraid I have to agree. Playing Uchiha has given me way more power than I bargained for. It's almost unfair how quickly I learn jutsu (something our Byakugan user has commented on many a time Wink, nothing but love man) and the idea that I can learn super ridiculous MS jutsu soon? It takes away from a decent amount of creativity from the character.

While Zen has been really cool about incorporating backstory well, Uchiha are very high maintenance chars in terms of plot centrality.

My advice: check out something new and give it a shot. If you like the diversity of Uchiha abilities, maybe give doukagan a shot? I always thought Katsugan would be pretty cool. Very Happy
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha haahaha.



No.
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Ryuugan
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Joined: 11 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you feel the need for it to be revamped, create your own class and ask your DM if you can be used. Honestly I think the Battle Mime class was pretty good all things considered.

If you have a problem with the system, don't complain about it and expect others to bow to your demands and create something just for you. Do it yourself, or ask for suggestions on how to create your own. Right now you sound like a spoiled brat, learn some tact and think before spew nonsense like that. Plenty of people on the forums make their own classes, so there's no reason why you cant do it either.
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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i would agree that for an intermediate bloodline, it is probably a bit overpowered, but i do disagree that the uchiha specific and MS techs are overpowered. The penalties are huge, chakra costs are high, and many of them can only affect one target. i dont think uchiha users as a whole are overpowered, but they are prefect 1v1 fighters. copying techniques can be useful, but having a limited chakra pool and using chakra control can only get a player so far, what i basically comes down to is, the sharingan techs focus all the energy of a player outwards, on attack, rather than on the defensive. which can get any player into trouble. and while the MS techs are powerful, despite their drawbacks, they are pretty comperable to techniques of the same rank/complexity rating.

im not trying to be a spoiled brat here, i jsut think that being an uchia user in my campaign makes it inappropriate for me to create a class specifically for me. i have gmed in the past, and let players to this kind of thing and it has never worked out well. so i think ill take a look at it and revamp it and post it up here to see what you all think before i talk to the gm.
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sharingan itself is now a very good bloodline, after Frankto reduced its cost to make it in pair with Byakugan and reworked the copy abilities. I don't think the bloodline itself is unbalanced (Too weak or too powerful).

I also have nothing to comment about MS techniques. They are fair enough as they are, IMHO: high power, high drawbacks. Fine.

As for the Battle Mime class, i also think it is somewhat weak compared to other bloodline classes. They are supposed to be a battle-oriented class, but their BAB is only 3/4. The Hyuuga also has a class of the same level of power (and battle-oriented as well) with same HD, Defense, Skill Points but full BAB. Same for Kaguya Warmonger and Elder Sage. The Hivemaster has two abilities per level (Making it a little better than both Battle Mime and White Knight).

Also, i don't think that the level 2 ability of Battle Mime or White Knight (And others) is always usefull. If someone has already taken all possible feats for his/her bloodline or decide to take other bonus feats, the ability will be wasted. If in addition to it, the character receives a bonus feat once the ability is gained, it would be more balanced.

So, for the Battle Mime, a simple change of BAB and a bonus feat on the second level would make things better, in my oppinion. The bonus feat would also be a good change for White Knight/Hivemaster/others.
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Whitefire
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

An interesting ability for like the battle mime class and/or the white knight class would be to allow them to spend an action point to like negate having to pay the cost of chakra for like a while. Though that might be to powerful.
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: Hidden Sand

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
An interesting ability for like the battle mime class and/or the white knight class would be to allow them to spend an action point to like negate having to pay the cost of chakra for like a while. Though that might be to powerful.


Yes, i agree, it would be powerful... And would be somewhat strange, considering that those two bloodlines have different costs.
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Elon
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry to post this here, but I don't want to open a new thread for this. Have you guys felt your players are like invincible thanks to AP? I mean, if I gamemaster normally, they end up having lots of AP, that only come handy in final battles or such. So lately I've been forced to make them AP stupid rolls fooling them. I feel I'm doing something wrong.
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 1251
Location: Hidden Sand

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm sorry to post this here, but I don't want to open a new thread for this. Have you guys felt your players are like invincible thanks to AP? I mean, if I gamemaster normally, they end up having lots of AP, that only come handy in final battles or such. So lately I've been forced to make them AP stupid rolls fooling them. I feel I'm doing something wrong.


Renew the ammount AP every level, do not allow them to stack. And only allow them to use a single AP/round. I use those two options and i never had any problem with APs in my campaign.
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Jensik
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Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keldon_Draconian wrote:
<snip>And only allow them to use a single AP/round. <snip>


Umm... that's the way it's supposed to be.

D20 Modern SRD wrote:
A character can only spend 1 action point in a round. If a character spends a point to use a class feature, he or she can?t spend another one in the same round to improve a die roll, and vice versa.

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cmkawasaki
Lazy Programmer


Joined: 21 May 2005
Posts: 3388

PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Elon wrote:
I'm sorry to post this here, but I don't want to open a new thread for this. Have you guys felt your players are like invincible thanks to AP? I mean, if I gamemaster normally, they end up having lots of AP, that only come handy in final battles or such. So lately I've been forced to make them AP stupid rolls fooling them. I feel I'm doing something wrong.


Not at all. Espeically if you use IRC, the Dicebot usually screws the players to the point that they NEED to use their AP up. Besides, AP come in handy, but they get used up in any critical situation. Move Silently nd Hide checks, for example....
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kp91
PM Frankto for a Special Title


Joined: 09 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmkawasaki wrote:
Elon wrote:
I'm sorry to post this here, but I don't want to open a new thread for this. Have you guys felt your players are like invincible thanks to AP? I mean, if I gamemaster normally, they end up having lots of AP, that only come handy in final battles or such. So lately I've been forced to make them AP stupid rolls fooling them. I feel I'm doing something wrong.


Not at all. Espeically if you use IRC, the Dicebot usually screws the players to the point that they NEED to use their AP up. Besides, AP come in handy, but they get used up in any critical situation. Move Silently nd Hide checks, for example....

Other than your game, I don't think I've ever even used an AP before, so I'm going to have to disagree with your disagreement.
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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keldon_Draconian wrote:
Sharingan itself is now a very good bloodline, after Frankto reduced its cost to make it in pair with Byakugan and reworked the copy abilities. I don't think the bloodline itself is unbalanced (Too weak or too powerful).

I also have nothing to comment about MS techniques. They are fair enough as they are, IMHO: high power, high drawbacks. Fine.

As for the Battle Mime class, i also think it is somewhat weak compared to other bloodline classes. They are supposed to be a battle-oriented class, but their BAB is only 3/4. The Hyuuga also has a class of the same level of power (and battle-oriented as well) with same HD, Defense, Skill Points but full BAB. Same for Kaguya Warmonger and Elder Sage. The Hivemaster has two abilities per level (Making it a little better than both Battle Mime and White Knight).

Also, i don't think that the level 2 ability of Battle Mime or White Knight (And others) is always usefull. If someone has already taken all possible feats for his/her bloodline or decide to take other bonus feats, the ability will be wasted. If in addition to it, the character receives a bonus feat once the ability is gained, it would be more balanced.

So, for the Battle Mime, a simple change of BAB and a bonus feat on the second level would make things better, in my oppinion. The bonus feat would also be a good change for White Knight/Hivemaster/others.



i agree, the usefulness of the 2nd ability and the bab are the issues. especially considering most of the players (in my campaign at least, i cant speak for others) take their bloodline classes as either a last resort, or after they have gotten to where they want to be in another desired class (ninja scout 10 for me), so adding a bonus feat is definately a better choice.
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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

reworked, im posting it up to see what everyone thinks.

Battle Mime
The battle mime is a powerful Uchiha warrior who has trained to become more efficient than most in using his powerful Sharingan Eye.
Requirements: To qualify to become a battle mime, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Base Attack Bonus: +2
Skills: Any 2 of the following: Genjutsu 6 ranks, Ninjutsu 6 ranks, Taijutsu 6 ranks.
Feats: Advanced Bloodline (Sharingan Eye) and any one of the following: Genius Nin, Genjutsu Adept, Ninja's Mimicry, Ninjutsu Adept, Taijutsu Adept.
Special: Sharingan Eye +1 and Offensive Foresight +1 supernatural abilities. Primary Elemental Affinity (fire). Uchiha Clan occupation only.
Class Information
The following information pertains to the Battle Mime advanced class.
Hit Die
The Battle Mime gains 1d8 hit points per level. The Constitution modifier applies.
Action Points
The Battle Mime gains a number of action points equal to 6 + one-half his character level, rounded down, everytime he attains a new level in this class.
Class Skills
The Battle Mime's class skills are as follows.
Balance (Dex), Chakra Control (Wis), Genjutsu (Cha), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (behavioral science, ninja lore, tactics) (Int), Move Silently (Dex), Ninjutsu (Int), Read/Write Language (none), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (none), Spot (Wis), Taijutsu (Str), Tumble (Dex).
Skill Points at Each Level: 3 + Int modifier.
TABLE: THE BATTLE MIME
1st +1 +1 +1 +1 Scrolls of War +1 +1
2nd +2 +2 +2 +2 Scrolls of Wisdom, Bonus Feat +2 +1
3rd +3 +2 +2 +2 Scrolls of Heaven and Earth +2 +1
Class Features
The following features pertain to the Battle Mime advanced class.
Scrolls of War
The battle mime specializes in one of three areas, choose one below.
Mirage: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to checks made to Learn, perform, convert and
copy Genjutsu techniques.
Fan: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to checks made to Learn, perform, convert and
copy Katon ninjutsu techniques.
Hawk: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus checks made to Learn, perform, convert and
copy Taijutsu techniques (though the battle mime may still only copy stance techniques).
Scrolls of Wisdom
The following feats always figure in the battle mime's list of bonus feats: Battle Ready
(Sharingan), Mangekyou Sharingan and Ninja's Mimicry.
The following feats always figure in the battle mime's list of epic bonus feats: Darkbane
Sharingan and Epic Sharingan.
Bonus Feat
At 2nd level, the Battle Mime gains a bonus feat. This feat must be
selected from the Scrolls of Wisdom Ability, and the Battle Mime must meet any prerequisites,
Scrolls of Heaven and Earth
The battle mime gains additional bonus from having his Sharingan Eye active, depending
on the specialization taken from Scrolls of War.
Mirage: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to his Charisma score while his Sharingan Eye
is active.
Fan: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to his Intelligence score while his Sharingan Eye
is active.
Hawk: The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to his Strength score while his Sharingan Eye is
active.
The battle mime gains a +2 bonus to Perform checks made for any Uchiha Clan Hijutsu
or Uchiha Clan Kinjutsu techniques.
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Whitefire
First Mate! Arr!


Joined: 09 Sep 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow ekjohnson98 you might have just destroyed that class for the rest of us. Not because of the changes you made you made... well probably because of the changes you made. If your lucky Frankto might consider some of the changes and might i suggest coding next time.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

/lol Rolling Eyes
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Infinitus
Holiday Ninja


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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uhm, maybe because it is late here, I am not sure, what did he change? It looks to me like the original... *3minutes-thinking-downloading-break*

oh now I got it, the BAB changed.

There are certain things that make me wanna throw foul veggies...


you are not certain about it are you... oh wait... do not say anything, I will not like the answer.
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cmkawasaki
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Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Foolish dumbass. I don't think it's occured to him yet that doing something like this just ensures that Frankto won't waste a minute of his life bothering to be nice and make the class better. Ah well, not like I'd really ever play a Battle Mime anyways....
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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 6:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

w/e man, its not a big deal to me if franko adds a bonus feat and changes the BAB of the battle mime, but it was pretty much worked out (if you read the posts that is) that the white knight and battle mime only need a few fixes, so i made a few small changes, i never said that the class itself should be changed entirely, i said i thought it was weak, so i made it a little stronger. i never said, im going to totally revolutionize this class, i just figured it would be helpful to all to see a slightly reworked battle mime. im not trying to take credit for anything or say that i "made a new class" w/e, i just figured i would actually spell out the changes i had in mind.
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kp91
PM Frankto for a Special Title


Joined: 09 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the point is that you reposted EVERYTHING to make a minor change.
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dlaurindo
Chuunin


Joined: 08 Jun 2007
Posts: 99

PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"how about to add a bonus feat in the 2nd level and change the BAB to full??"

It will express the same ideia and it will be better understood...

and when you suggest sth, just suggest... don't try to do Frankto's job... he knows how to do it VERY WELL
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cmkawasaki
Lazy Programmer


Joined: 21 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Precisely. It was unneccessary, and does little more than give Frankto less inspiration. Not that he would of ever had inspiration to improve the Battle Mime Class.

On another note, we could all picture those exact changes from the earilier description of them - placing the rest of the text in your post didn't help anyone see a great improvement, but rather just left them confused and thinking you might have made an actual improvement to the class. Rolling Eyes
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ekjohnson98
Chuunin


Joined: 22 Apr 2007
Posts: 58

PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmkawasaki wrote:
Precisely. It was unneccessary, and does little more than give Frankto less inspiration. Not that he would of ever had inspiration to improve the Battle Mime Class.

On another note, we could all picture those exact changes from the earilier description of them - placing the rest of the text in your post didn't help anyone see a great improvement, but rather just left them confused and thinking you might have made an actual improvement to the class. Rolling Eyes


i see, understood, i just figured id be as specific as possible because if im not then people tend to blow things out of proportions.
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