Worst Feat Ever.

[Cupidzs]

With my fist character, we hastily read through the books to make our characters. (eager to play)
and i had miss read this feat, but my Gm doesn't allow me to change it. Now I'm the butt end of most jokes. When we do training, and i gotta wait a lvl to get a move i need badly, I get the Should have took Genius Nin jokes. then when i try to plan my feats, and i gotta make sacrifices to make my bloodline better rather than take a pre-rec feat for my advanced class (making me have to wait more lvls then i should have), I get the If only you had taken it instead jokes.

The feat I'm talking about is this:

Advanced Study
Prerequisite: Can only be taken at 1st level.
Benefit: You gain a the ability to learn a technique of 2 ranks higher than you normally
could, with a +2 competence bonus to Learn checks. You cannot attain mastery in this
technique until you attain sufficient level to learn it normally.
This bonus does not stack with feats and abilities that allow learning higher-ranked
techniques, such as Genius Nin.


I took this feat thinking that i could learn techniques 2 lvls higher, and it was over all better than Genius Nin, because i didn't care about being younger in age, or one hand sealing later. (Tai primary, Nin Secondary, and i don't carry any weapon other than Kunai)
Well after my GM read over the text behind me he brought to my attention that I had read it wrong and that i couldn't change it now that we had started.

The problem with this feat is that it is completely USELESS after lvl 3. I get no benefit out of it. at lower lvls it was good to have as a trump card, but now that I'm higher than that, it's just wasting a feat slot. with every other feat, you atleast get some use out of it at any given time, even if it's small like a +2 to a skill that you don't use too often. But Advanced Study? after lvl 3 when you master your tech, it's useless. it an only be taken at lvl one too so the tech you pick up is rank 3 at the most. I could just take Genius Nin and just wait till lvl 2 to do that, and i have access to all the other techs of it's type at that rank. and i don't have to wait to master them.
so when we get to lvl 2, not only did the guys with genius nin learn the same tech i learned at lvl 1, they can master it this lvl, while i gotta wait till we lvl again to start. and by that time they are on the next set of techs.


Is there a typo to this Feat that makes it worse then it was meant to be?
Can this be fixed, atleast in the next update? (which i know won't be for some time now)
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[kp91]

I've always ruled that you can wait to get the technique (though, it makes you have a useless feat for a couple levels), but ya, that 1st level only penalty is ridiculous.

[Frankto]

What's your point? The feat serves exactly the purpose it was designed for. No, it won't be changed.
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[Malificus]

Cant see anything to bad with that...

Its first level only.

Look at the uchiha clan ( without sharingan, little uchiha's ) they have to master the fireball.
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LOLOL NO U.

[kp91]

[cmkawasaki]

I have to note that when a GM rules you can't change something that he didn't realize the purpose of that feat, or to say you can't change it solely because you chose it before is horrible DMing. Everyone modifies their build plans at some point - only the stupid DMs reward those who go overboard and plan out the entire 20 level progression from the start. Then again, I would simply strongly suggest to someone thinking about that feat to not take it.

[Hideko]

I have a different aproach for this feat.

As a GM i rule that this feat will make the character able to always learn techniques, as if he was 2 levels higher. However, he still cant master them, untill his lvl actually reaches 2 higher. (meaning he will only have learned it at his current level). I use this a feat, for character who have a special flair within a certain aspect. But still, my players dont "just" learn new techniques.. they need to find a trainer who can actually teach the technique to them, OR research it themselfs. basically this means that trying to find the person or scroll containing the technique, takes so long long, that they usually reach a level higher.
But then again, level is never an issue in my game. you dont need high techniques to be good. You just need to know how to combine the techniques you have, and make the best of it.

I had a battle with my players, 4 chuunins against 1 Special jounin. he used only low ranked techniques, just to prove my point that high level techniques dont give you the victory. But tactics and strategy does.
Ofc. this means that the combat scenes cant be "dungeon crawling" combat.
(the joining btw, won. lvl 16, vs. 4 lvl 8 chuunin(one with advanced study and one with geneius).

ps. Sorry for the spelling errors, i am wordblind
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Wow! Natural 20.... WHAT!!! HE DODGED!?

[Athildur]

I do not find it difficult to believe that a level 16 won against a party of lvl 8s. Because that's how it's supposed to be, regardless.

The extra HD, defense, skill points and saves (not to mention BaB) make him hard to hit, hard to spot (if he uses stealth), hard to hide from (if you hide), and hard to properly affect with jutsu (because of higher saves).

You can't really damage something if you can't hit it properly...
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Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh*

[Hideko]

And this was exactly my point. he was fast hero/scout and some nin counter. So his BaB couldnt deal with their taijutsu character, who had an extreme attack bonus. His weapon though was Hide, as he was super specced in hide and spot (to detect enemies obviously). he defeated them using Kunai, no special abilities (oh btw, i dont know if it is an official rule, but i use a rule, when you attack from a hidden position, you remain hidden, although everyone gets a free spot check (+5 bonus) to detect the attacker).

And no, 4 lvl 8, specced right, would have a good chance of killing a lvl 16, if we removed the techniques (ofc the higher level techniques CAN make a difference).
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Wow! Natural 20.... WHAT!!! HE DODGED!?

[RagnarBlackmane]

[Hideko]

ahh allright.. i see.. well, the jounin still have +29 (or something like that), for sneak, and none of the players took spot ("Spot is not a combat skill, or the req for any of our prestige classes"), so it was an annoying opponent But yeah, i think it would have done alot of difference when it come down to it.

But doesnt being scout change it, or is only when moving?
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Wow! Natural 20.... WHAT!!! HE DODGED!?

[RagnarBlackmane]

It's in the d20 modern rulebook, the first paragraph. It says.....

[Hideko]

Ahh no i am aware.
But fair enough means i gotta use a bit more techniques it seems, to gain the same amount of sneak (chamelion and such).
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Wow! Natural 20.... WHAT!!! HE DODGED!?

[karsagon]

The feat as it is written, does not say that the feat is not still in effect at later levels. It only says it can be taken at first level. So, from my understanding, at every level your character is he is still able to learn techniques of 2 levels higher than normal. When a character takes power attack, he can use it after every level he takes it. Not just the level he took it.
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[IntOblivion]

It only applies to ONE technique. So, it's only useable until that technique is learned. However, I believe it can be, for example, a lvl 5 technique, meaning you can learn it at lvl 3. I might be wrong though.
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Guess who's back?

[Cupidzs]

Well, seeing as Frankto graced us with his official ruling on this (and it wasn't favorable), there is no way I can get my GM to change it. We kinda take his opinion as game rules, seeing as he wrote the rules to begin with.

I notice that most of you seem to House Rule on this one. I guess I'll do that on the game I Gm. other wise it would just be a useless feat. (unless you run a game that ends at lvl 3)
Thanks for the input guys.
And Thanks for the ruling Frankto.
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[Frankto]

The purpose of the feat is to grant a 1st level character a technique of up to rank 3, separate from the techniques he starts with. Nothing else.
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[sway]

There is an equivalent feat in D&D 3.5, Precocious Apprentice... I think. Grants a second level spell at level 1.

Not all feats are meant to "rock your world". I mean tons of feats suck for tons of reasons.
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[Cupidzs]

I understand. I'm not upset or anything, I wrote the original post with the knowledge that I might get shot down. I was just wondering if it was a typo or something. And I must admit that it was nice to be able to use Jyuuken at lvl 1. Don't get me wrong i still don't like the feat, but your right about D&D having alot of feats that are pointless after awhile, so everything is everything. Thanks again guys.
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[kp91]

[VonFRO]

Just for clarification, Genius Nin works differently than this, correct? It sounds, from the description, that it treats the character as one level higher to determine the techniques he is able to gain. Is that how it works or is it like Advanced Study?
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VonFRO
The answer is 42.

[zen]

Yes, that's how it works.

[Shun]

That's it.
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Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*

[VonFRO]

Cool, thanks for the clarification!
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VonFRO
The answer is 42.