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Will there be a 4e?
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shiroken
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Joined: 06 Oct 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:13 pm    Post subject: Will there be a 4e? Reply with quote

I'm curious, will you guys being making an update for the new 4th edition DnD rules or will you be sticking with 3.5? If you plan to I assume it'll be after they update the d20 modern stuff, right?
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

'update the D20 modern stuff'
Excuse me....
*goes to get his MP5k*
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this ever happens, i'll probably be arrested after killing every one inside WotC with sharp swords right trough their throats.

And of course, i'd stop playing D20 Modern right away, if the rules follow the same path of DnD's 4E.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

d20 Modern was barely updated in 3.5, it sure as hell isn't becoming 4e. Or if it is, well, it's still not on their scheduled settings to release. Each setting gets a year in 4e, and it's going to like 2012, bringing back Planescape and other old settings so far.

But, in my head, I had an idea for 4e Naruto d20. Not that I'd have the attention span to write it all down, but it works surprisingly well since ninja tend to specialize in one field anyway. A genjutsu expert would be a controller, unarmed Taijutsu the defender, weapons Taijutsu the striker, a Medical Ninja leader.
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Cupidzs
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds like city of heroes!! LOL
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 06, 2008 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keldon_Draconian wrote:
If this ever happens, i'll probably be arrested after killing every one inside WotC with sharp swords right trough their throats.

And of course, i'd stop playing D20 Modern right away, if the rules follow the same path of DnD's 4E.


I'll join you Keldon. Do you want the greatsword or katana?
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Malificus
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felix_Zyphros wrote:
Keldon_Draconian wrote:
If this ever happens, i'll probably be arrested after killing every one inside WotC with sharp swords right trough their throats.

And of course, i'd stop playing D20 Modern right away, if the rules follow the same path of DnD's 4E.


I'll join you Keldon. Do you want the greatsword or katana?


Your mp5 k sounded good.


im just going to rip out there hearts and feed it to them
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 07, 2008 4:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's very unlikely d20M is getting updated, and no. No, I most definitely am not.

No. Just... no.


No.
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shiroken
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

*cringes*
uh... okay... sorry... don't kill me, please...
*runs away*
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I'm not very opposed to 4e (I like the idea, I hope it turns out well when I play it), I do think that NarutoD20 is too...flexible in its possibilities to allow for a 4e character.

Being a good shinobi requires you to multiclass quite a bit, and learn and create a multitude of techniques, as well as gain other abilities that make some extraordinary things possible.

I don't think that the powers model would come in handy at all in this campaign setting.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But, it might actually help fit the show with 4e. Most characters have one specialty (and occasionally two; with only one or two exception). Those with two specialties are usually weaker in the 2nd, so multiclassing would give that small level of expertise, and then there would be a "Genius Nin" class that would be a leader that has both ranged and melee attacks. I think I divided it something like:

Weapons Master - Striker
Taijutsu Master - Defender
Medical Ninja - Leader w/melee attacks
Ninjutsu Specialist - Striker
Genjutsu Specialist - Controller
Genius Ninja - Leader w/ variety of attacks

I may have other ideas, but those are what I remember. (Perhaps a sub-division of ninjutsu thats a controller, as techniques seem more like a controller, but that's a hard one to classify). Chakra becomes replaced by the fact that stronger jutsu have limited uses (Encounter or Daily), and At-Will powers are weaker jutsu that take up very little chakra.
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hastur
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say agree with what kp said. The biggest problems in making Naruto4e would be:
a)Keeping some reference without ruining power system (my thought when I once pondered on the subject was using "chakra control" for recharging powers at cost of healing surges)
b)Beating the 'nerd rage against 4e' that seems to have overtaken most of the poeple Razz

One benefit of such change would be a cahnge in dynamics of the game - 3.X, and thus by extension D20 modern tends to fluctoate towards more static combat, where people want to get close and use full attack to maximaze damage. 4e on the other hand, by design was created to encourage more mobile combat, with people changing thier position much more often - which IMHO would represent combat as seen in naruto better.

Summary: Even if Frankto would like 4e - and his comment makes me think otherwise - I doubt he would be willing to spend time on such conversion, and the majority of people here would loathe him if he did so (sadly). So no, don't expect Naruto D20 with 4e rules. The End.
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Cold
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

4e sounds like a major crap... Striker, Defender, leader, which are most likly, Class jobs... and stuff like healing surge, I mean WTF?! 3.e stays at top, at least untill 4e goes OGL and I actually come to like it...
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kp91
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold wrote:
4e sounds like a major crap... Striker, Defender, leader, which are most likly, Class jobs... and stuff like healing surge, I mean WTF?! 3.e stays at top, at least untill 4e goes OGL and I actually come to like it...

It won't be OGL. Wizards weren't making enough money, and so they got a different license. You can still make supplements, but you can't use source material (ie. if you made an adventure, you would have to give the page of the monsters or make your own).
And the thing is, those roles fit the Naruto world rather well. Sakura never does much but heals. Sure she's has super strength, and she's used it in like one or two fights, and that would equate to the minor combat of a Leader. Even characters as strong as Jiraiya are practically ninjutsu only, with some Taijutsu (especially in Sage mode but still little).
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Cold
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So untill I get *** ***** version....
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Drackcove
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely love 4ed D&D. best thing to ever happen to D&D. But d20 modern should stay as is.

D&D classes are based on archetypes how ever. d20 modern are not. they are built on really really vague ideas that you are supposed to expand as you level up. The d20 modern game has NO NEED for powers like the D&D game.

but now a Naruto 4ed game actually does make sense BUT, i tried to put it together and this is the result: you must make a new class for every individual clan and character. why? because how the hell is neji taijutsu ANYTHING like kiba enough to create a similar class? no they act nothing alike. nothing. Neji is a defender while kiba is a striker. kiba abilities with his dog deserve an entirely unique class structure. this d20 system is fine because it put the spell structure into the skill system making anytwo people can study taijutsu with very different results, while D&D aims to put the powers as part of class features.

In conclusion: we can learn things from 4ed to make this d20 modern game better (franketo I'm talking to you there.) But 4ed D&D is not designed to tackle naruto (or rather it is very well designed to do it, but making a new class for every character concept is stupid). Honestly I question even d20 modern ability to truly handle it but franketo has done an amazing job so far.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

but now a Naruto 4ed game actually does make sense BUT, i tried to put it together and this is the result: you must make a new class for every individual clan and character. why? because how the hell is neji taijutsu ANYTHING like kiba enough to create a similar class? no they act nothing alike. nothing. Neji is a defender while kiba is a striker. kiba abilities with his dog deserve an entirely unique class structure. this d20 system is fine because it put the spell structure into the skill system making anytwo people can study taijutsu with very different results, while D&D aims to put the powers as part of class features.

Neji is definitely a striker, he hits single targets for huge damage. But the entirety of 4e is to adapt with RP more than stats. Whether it's Neji or Kiba hitting with Taijutsu, it's still hitting and would have similar damage types.
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's not an entirely difficult thing to solve.

Kiba is a striker with a feral power source.

Making this a class is not weird, because anyone can get an animal companion, and only certain powers would require one to be a member of a clan.


Neji is a striker with a martial power source.

Making this class is not weird, because striking with precision rather than force, and focusing slightly on dodging blows, is something any striker could do. The few specific powers for the bloodline could be as simple as a multiclass or powers that require the bloodline.

Or something to those extents.
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Drackcove
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But that is the very problem. It would require creating a new class for every concept, because of how different every character is. Creating just a few classes and attempting to cover all of naruto would not work it would take a good 10* different classes.

(*this is an arbitrary number, it has no meaning besides it sounded about right.)
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kp91
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drackcove wrote:
But that is the very problem. It would require creating a new class for every concept, because of how different every character is. Creating just a few classes and attempting to cover all of naruto would not work it would take a good 10* different classes.

(*this is an arbitrary number, it has no meaning besides it sounded about right.)

Multiclass feats. Work it like Spellscars, you take the feat and swapping powers represents better proficiency in your clan's techniques.
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Cold
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cam someone explain me these class jobs? Is it just a name you give the fighters *striker* and clerics *leader* etc... or it has some importance?
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kp91
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cold wrote:
Cam someone explain me these class jobs? Is it just a name you give the fighters *striker* and clerics *leader* etc... or it has some importance?

Defenders - Tank role. Take damage for the party and draw the attacks to them. Includes Fighters, Paladins, and Swordmages so far.

Strikers - Heavy damage dealers. Hurt more than fighters, so your steryotypical fighter who hacks away at enemies is actually a rogue or ranger in 4e. These include Ranger, Rogue, Warlock, Barbarian so far. I feel like I missed one though.

Leaders - Healers. They typically have some combat ability and can hold their own, but most powers are buffs or healing with an attack. Warlord, Cleric, and Artificer are the current leaders.

Controller - These deal lasting effects with area attacks and moderate damage. They're good for taking out minions, but so far, only the wizard has been made.
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Athildur
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drackcove wrote:
But that is the very problem. It would require creating a new class for every concept, because of how different every character is. Creating just a few classes and attempting to cover all of naruto would not work it would take a good 10* different classes.

(*this is an arbitrary number, it has no meaning besides it sounded about right.)


I was explaining that the contrary is true.

Basically, the maximum amount of classes you would have is:

[# power sources] * [# roles] + a small variable.

What we see in the current rules are:

Controller - Arcane [Wizard]

Defender - Martial [Fighter]
Divine [Paladin]
Arcane [Swordmage]

Leader - Divine [Cleric]
Martial [Warlord]

Striker - Martial [Ranger; Rogue]
Arcane [Warlock]

With one exception, every role + power source is a unique combination. Rogue and Ranger are two seperate classes because they work in completely different ways.


In a narutod20 4e, you would discern the power sources by jutsu type.

Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu.

Perhaps a chakra control class, though I would see that more as a multi-classable thing rather than something you'd really consider taking.

There may be a few double roles, considering for example the unarmed specialist and the weapons specialist, because they work in completely different ways.
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Naruto20D20
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, a Chakra Control class could be the Medical Nin, though I guess you could file that under Ninjutsu if you wished.

I always thought of healing as Chakra Control, but that's just my opinion.
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Cold
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've read some articals about 4e, and people liked it, I;m not willing to buy more books, first, cuz we ain't got em here, 2nd, the money... they are freaiking expansive....

Are there any bored GMs that do "get to know 4e" games on RPoL? With that Shadowfall or something? Somewhere I can try 4e without having to know the new rules?
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's always the arena games. I'm in one of them, Genisis II, as an elf ranger.
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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kp91
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My post that I'd consider running a game for Cold was deleted because...?
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can guess why, KP.

You are not supposed to talk about certain "illegal" things around here, otherwise the owner of this website may get into trouble if WoTC finds out. This could have been the reason for Frankto to delete your post.
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kp91
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not illegal if I own the books.
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 22, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, the more reasonable answer: You've pissed Frankto off a bit too many times.
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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