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Class Skills

 
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Axanor
Genin


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 32
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 2:33 am    Post subject: Class Skills Reply with quote

There's a house rule that I use, and I was wondering what everybody thought. I've had several debates with my friends questioning how fair it is.

The Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu, and chakra control skills are class skills for the five starting classes for heroic characters.

My reasoning for this is that any good shinobi uses at least one and in most cases, two. Especially since you need ranks in chakra control to have techniques. If not all four, than at least chakra control due to it's many uses for any kind of shinobi. If anybody has questions, comments, or concerns, let me know.

Edit: Oops, yeah there are 6 basic classes sorry for any confusion
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Last edited by Axanor on Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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azraelmk3
Chuunin


Joined: 09 Sep 2009
Posts: 70

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

arent there 6 base classes?

and with starting occupation, multi classing, and other methods getting all 4 as class skills at one time or another isnt all tat difficult...if you and your group like it then go ahead, but i find it rather pointless, and eliminating teh decision on some levels what to put skill points in, sometimes forcing teh player to take cross class skilsl lets the skill pointes be diversified, instead of just maxing 4-5 skills
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Keldon_Draconian
Grandmaster


Joined: 14 Feb 2006
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Location: Hidden Sand

PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what occupations are for.

If i start with Strong Hero i take Control, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu as class skills with Academy Student.
If i start with fFst i take Control, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu.
If i start with Tough i take Control, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu.
If i start with Smart i take Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Control.
If i start with Dedicated i take Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu.
If i start with Charismatic i take Ninjutsu, Control, Taijutsu.

The system already covers your problem pretty well, IMO.
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jmantyk
Mr. Happy
Mr. Happy


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget talented shinobi, beat feat ever
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Axanor
Genin


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 32
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Keldon_Draconian"]That's what occupations are for.

If i start with Strong Hero i take Control, Ninjutsu and Genjutsu as class skills with Academy Student.
If i start with fFst i take Control, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu.
If i start with Tough i take Control, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu.
If i start with Smart i take Taijutsu, Ninjutsu, Control.
If i start with Dedicated i take Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu.
If i start with Charismatic i take Ninjutsu, Control, Taijutsu.

The system already covers your problem pretty well, IMO.[/quote]

And there lies the problem, players are forced to take academy student if they want to diversify, and with the wide selection of bonus feats that academy student grants, it seems like you would be stupid not to. I think giving all players those four skills nerfs academy student slightly in a good way.
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Ketsukage
Genin


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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Location: The Wasteland

PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't believe Academy Student needs to be nerfed, nor do I see any problem with it being a very strong choice. I find Academy Student to be the easiest starting occupation to write stories for (assuming your game starts at level one). At higher levels it still isn't an issue, as the other occupations that tend to be more specialized are offset by the multitude of possibilities present in multi-classing. In a "standard" Nd20 campaign at my house, most people do start as Academy Students and take at least a few levels in Ninja Scout. Without those elements, your story is likely going to have a slightly different flavor, and the (percieved) lack of diversity in character options can be a good point to start story-building from.

All that being said, I'm a little drunk and probably shouldn't be forum-surfing anyhow... but there's my thoughts. Wink
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Genin


Joined: 21 Oct 2009
Posts: 2
Location: WillitsCA

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, Im not so sure you cant diversify without cross classing, my dear axanor.

The occupational skills could very well easily be used on skills besides the four shinobi based ones, it just means you'll have a hard time if you want to focus on more than one art, ie Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, ect.

So, really, its just deciding what you want your character to specialize in. I mean really, a taijutsu master doesnt need to have max ranks in Genjutsu, nor does a Genjutsu Master need to have max ramks in taijutsu.

Hell, if you REALLY want to focus just put the extra skill ranks into one, giving you +3 in that skill. Just dont expect to be too diverse beyond the extent of your class, of course.
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Axanor
Genin


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 32
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what about chakra control? You need ranks in order to have techniques, it seems nearly impossible to build a ninja without taking ranks in the said skill.

But ketsukage, if you're starting at level 1, why should a person be limited to the occupation of the academy student? I mean, sure, it's a traditional campaign setting, because that's the way it's done in the show, but what if a person wants to play a different role than your 12 year old genin? Like Haku for example, he is orphaned as a kid and takes the starting occupation mentored. So is he stupid for not taking academy student? (I say this hypothetically, as though Haku was being played by a person)

Though regardless if academy student is overpowered or not, all ninja use chakra control, and the other skills are used in almost every ninja build as well. Academy student, with the bonus feat selection and everything else, will not suffer that much if those skills were given. Besides, does that make things too easy? Or does it unbalance the system?
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Keldon_Draconian
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Like Haku for example, he is orphaned as a kid and takes the starting occupation mentored. So is he stupid for not taking academy student?


Mentored is even better. It would not be stupid.
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mentored is a stronger occupation, true, but personally, I don't like the implications. A character that doesn't rely on its own power doesn't really appeal to me.
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Axanor
Genin


Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Frankto"]Mentored is a stronger occupation, true, but personally, I don't like the implications. A character that doesn't rely on its own power doesn't really appeal to me.[/quote]

Do you mean that you don't like mentored for role-playing reasons? And after closer inspection, mentored is just better than academy student, did you do that on purpose?
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't like the roleplaying implications and yes, I did do that on purpose.
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Hairesu_Kode
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 9:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmantyk wrote:
Don't forget talented shinobi, beat feat ever


SKILL WHORE!
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Ketsukage
Genin


Joined: 01 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not saying that I railroad players into Academy Student. I just feel that the implications of, to use your example, a Mentored scenario similar to Haku is not condusive to a roleplaying group. It works fine if you are running a campaign with one or two players, but for bigger groups it seems... artificial to try to cram too many varied occupations together. Just my opinion. I never make player choices for them and I try to work with what my players want where possible, but just the same I find that a lot of my stories revolve around Academy Student if it's a low level game, and look more into the other options if I'm starting later in the character's development.
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Athildur
Sexually progressive Valkyrie


Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jmantyk wrote:
Don't forget talented shinobi, beat feat ever


I disagree. Skilled is far more valuable in the long run.
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jmantyk
Mr. Happy
Mr. Happy


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Athildur wrote:
I disagree. Skilled is far more valuable in the long run.


Oh I always try to grab that too, never enough skill points
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Haku
Genin


Joined: 09 Dec 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It seems a simple answer to this is that: It is your oppucation that makes you a ninja, and thereby trained in ninjutsu, taijutsu, genjutsu or control, not the type of character class you are. Ninja skills are not part of the base classes because being trianed as a ninja is not something that people share worldwide.

For your house-rule to make sense, all would have an equal oppurtunity and understanding to train these skills....regardless of what walk of life they were from (occupation). This seems to be quite unfounded and appears to be an attempt to get more out of your 'builds' rather than trying to reflect the universe you are playing in.

I hope you try to base your thoughts on improving the system within a more holistic and campaign based view in future. Forget what would be cool or make your characters abilites stronger but think on what makes sense in the context of the world and indivduals therein.

-Haku
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