Character Builds - What you do, and why!

[Athildur]

So, it's about time we start to look at what, exactly, everyone likes to play, and how they make these characters happen!

You can put any characters you have used, are using, have never used but would like to, etc etc. here.

Concepts are allowed, of course.

The objective: To discuss each other's builds (please do so here and NOT in this topic!) and see how everyone gives shape to their own characters.

In this instance, house rules and homebrew stuff are allowed, but you will have to explain what those things are if you post a build containing such things here.


I'll start us off with a simple two-weapon kenjutsu user:

Designed (or quickly improvised) to show that a swordsman can be reasonably powerful, given the possibilities. This one focuses on more attacks, as opposed to a swordsman that focuses on more powerful single-weapon blows, or one that focuses on defense.

[Frankto]

I can't help but optimize everything. So here's mine:

SHINOBI DREADNOUGHT
The Shinobi Dreadnought is a build I like to use when I need pure offensive power. With the right weapon, there is no other combination of classes and abilities that will beat what the Shinobi Dreadnought can do against a single target.

THE BUILD (in order): STRONG 3, FAST 2, SHINOBI SWORDSMAN 10, EXEMPLAR 5.

FAVORED STATS (in order): High Strength, High Constitution, High Dexterity, High Wisdom.

PRO: Extremely high offensive power, good defensive powers from Exemplar, potential for improved evasion and storm of blows.

CON: Obvious weakness to Genjutsu, little ability for Ninjutsu, very specialized.
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[ekjohnson98]

Squad Support
This build is my favorite build basically because it allows me to be very versatile and have decent offensive/defensive and combat abilities. It is basically an all around ninja build, with a minor focus on ninjutsu and tracking.

THE BUILD (in order): Smart 3, FAST 2, Ninja Scout 10, Ninja Op Counter 5.

FAVORED STATS (in order): High Intelligence, High Constitution, Medium STR, DEX and Wis, Low CHA

PRO: Good mix of abilities, ability to supplement multiple roles in a squad, mixed ranged/melee fighter capacity, excellent vs high level ninja opponents.
CON: Not specalized, often overshadowed in a group by one trick ponies, tend to be glass-cannons, kakashi type (hospitalized for weeks).

[Revan619]

does nobody upgrade gear or something? Ive been looking in the book at the npcs and what people have posted around the forums, most players in the game I am in, spend alot of time aquiring money to upgrade their gear and can take on most high levels at a mid level, going fast, scout, shinobi swordsman, with speed ranks and some upgraded gear a level 12 with like 34 AC and a 15 to hit. Plus the chosen classes giving high all round saves making it very hard to go for at any angle, especially using feats to get more skill points to max out those Ninja skills for saves
_________________
"So you wish to face me?
Well dear child then answer me this, how do you defeat me when your fighting the very rain itself?" - Yamako Hyuga the Tide of Konoha
"*sigh* Why is it the weak that always challenge me to a fight?" - Messa
"Ahhh we been rumbled!!!! quick Messa flush the weed!!!" - The Kai of Konoha

[Athildur]

Such ridiculous ACs only work if GMs allow the people to buy whatever they want, as long as money can buy it.

Level-appropriate gear is rather appropriate.

Also, I refrain from posting most characters or builds with high-grade itemization, because the importance lies mostly in the setup of the character, not in his items.

As for myself, personally, my characters usually play in the campaigns where soul blades are used, so the weapons require no upgrades once acquired. Occasionally, better armor is bought. And perhaps a sealed item or two to enhance a save or some such.
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Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh*

[Revan619]

ah cool, Personally I like to go for a good scapper with some powerful ninjutsu support. Normally going Fast Hero, Scout then Taijutsu Master. Using Genius nin and one handed handsigns along with strength and speed ranks. Bloodlines can always be helpful along these lines. Normally do this for good saves, evasion, and major attack power. Feats normally chosen are the combat ones, like dodge, defensive martial arts, brawl, ect ect.

Plus Scout helps gets those valuable misc ranks and class skills that make everything very tasty in the long run
_________________
"So you wish to face me?
Well dear child then answer me this, how do you defeat me when your fighting the very rain itself?" - Yamako Hyuga the Tide of Konoha
"*sigh* Why is it the weak that always challenge me to a fight?" - Messa
"Ahhh we been rumbled!!!! quick Messa flush the weed!!!" - The Kai of Konoha

[xslayerdude]

Personally, I like to give all my characters 5 speed and strength ranks as well as the kaigan. For a short duration, almost any character can be nigh unstoppable.

One of my favorites:

3 Fast, 1 Strong, 9 Taijutsu Master, 5 Blinkstrike, 2 Strong

Throw on 5 Speed ranks and the Kaigan, I got up to 47 AC and like +35 Attack Bonus (at level 20), This character has a low will, but the Kaigan makes up for that too.

I go 9 Taijutsu Master cuz 1d10 rolls better than 2d6 imo

(My group also uses the Saga ability point rules: 1 point to 2 stats every 4 levels.)

I always go back to Puppeteer though....

I'm like frank, optimization just comes to me
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Me: 'No I did not.'
Him(Confused): 'Didn't what?'

[Shun]

ANYONE with rank 5 speed/strength is a beast.. I don't care if you're genjutsu based, you could stomp a equal level taijutsu specialist
(it's been done).

That's not optimization, that's a one trick pony. And if every character gets Kaigan then I can tell your the GM is doing something seriously wrong.
---

I personally change depending on who/what I'm playing at the time. Sometimes I play the "weak" taijutsu specialist with high intelligence, maybe I feel like playing a tactical squad leader who has no combat capabilities whatsoever.. just depends on my character build for that character. More often than not, they still do better then everyone elses character's who they purposely made "strong". It's about the RP value of the character in all honesty.
_________________

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*

[Frankto]

+5 to attack and +5 to defense isn't enough to beat an equal level Taijutsu master as an equal level <anything but a taijutsu master>. If it is, you're not fighting fighting a Taijutsu master.
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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Athildur]

1) If anyone has a lot of Speed/Str ranks, it's the taijutsu-oriented characters. For most other characters, only speed ranks offer benefits (defense and reflex saves \o/).

2) If you're a genjutsu master and your speed/str ranks alone bring you on par with a taijutsu master of your level, he's just not very good in picking his levels, techniques or skills. Seriously...

3) Examples. Level 5 strength/speed, so let's assume the characters are level...17 (they ARE S-Class after all).

Genjutsu Master:
Level 3 Charismatic/5 Scout/7 Genjutsu Master/Nin Ops Counter 2
Strength 12, Dex 14, Con 14.
Speed/Str Rank 5.

Assuming a +3 MC armor and katana with +2 atk/dmg seal:

Attack bonus: +19/+14 (1d10+6, +3d6 sneak, 19-20/x2)
Defense: 31
HP: 12d6+5d8+34 (98 hp)


VERSUS

Taijutsu Master:
Strong 3/Taijutsu Master 10/Fast 1/Bodyguard 3
Strength 20, Dex 14, Con 16.
Speed/Str 5.

Assuming +3 MC weapon with +2 atk/dmg seal.

Attack bonus: +31/26/21 (2d6+14, 18-20/x3) (+1d6 sneak, +10 with a charge)
Defense: 32
HP: 4d8+13d10+51 (140 hp)


Assuming that average damage = attacks X hit chance X average damage (taking into account crits):

Taijutsu master:
Attack 1: Crit = Hit (0.15x0.95) x damage (6d6+42) = 9
Hit = Hit (0.8 + 0.15 x 0.05) x damage (2d6+14) = 17
Attack 2: Crit = Hit (0.15x0.75) x damage (6d6+42) = 7
Hit = Hit (0.6 + 0.15 x 0.25) x damage (2d6+14) = 13.4
Attack 3: Crit = Hit (0.15x0.55) x damage (6d6+42) = 4.7
Hit = Hit (0.35 + 0.15 x 0.45) x damage (2d6+14) = 8.9

Total: 60 damage with a full-attack, or 26 with a single attack.

If we account for the taijutsu master needing to make a charge every other turn, and a full-attack the other turns:


Charge: Crit = hit (0.15x0.95) x damage (6d6+72) = 11.8
Hit = hit (0.8 + 0.15x0.05) x damage (2d6+24) = 27.1

Avg damage/round = full-atk damage + charge dmg / 2 = 60 + 39 /2 = 49 damage per round.

Genjutsu Master:
Attack 1: Crit = Hit (0.1x0.4) x damage (2d10+12) = 0.9
Hit = Hit (0.3 + 0.1 x 0.6) x damage (1d10+6) = 4.1
Attack 2: Crit = Hit (0.1x0.15) x damage (2d10+12) = 0.35
Hit = Hit (0.05 + 0.1 x 0.85) x damage (1d10+6) = 1.6

Total: 6.95 = 7 damage with a full-attack, or 5 with a single hit.

If we account for the genjutsu master being able to make a single sneak attack every other turn, then Attack 1 would become:

Sneak Atk 1: Crit = Hit (0.1x0.75) x damage (2d10+12+3d6) = 2.5
Hit = Hit (0.65 + 0.1x0.25) x damage (1d10+6+3d6) = 14.85

(Existing Atk 1 + Sneak Atk 1)/2 = (5+17.35)/2 = 11.175 = 11.

So then, it would become 13 on a full-attack or 11 with a single hit.


Result: even if the genjutsu master passes off good tactics to sneak attack every other round, he'd still need about 12-14 rounds to kill the tai master with just attacks.
The taijutsu master would need 2 rounds to knock out the genjutsu master.

And then we will assume (rightly so) that genjutsu techniques and taijutsu techniques are of about equal power...
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Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh*

[SirShadow]

yea, I'm not going to be redundant about the whole, wtf are you talking about thing, but why wouldn't a taijutsu master also have Rank 5 Speed and Strength?

[Shun]

What's flawed about that formula is the complete gap in stats... who's to say the genjutsu user couldn't also roll the same stats as his Taijutsu counterpart? Or even roll maximum hitpoints? You're forgetting about the heavy "luck" factor of dice rolls.

My main point being a +5 is on par (if not greater then) with Sharingan's attack bonus depending on your bloodline level (minor, moderate etc). It's the equivelant of atleast 5 levels... enough for say Sasuke (nin/gen specialist) to stand up to Gaara (atleast some Tai), Lee (<-- tai master), Deidara and Orochimaru.
_________________

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*

[Frankto]

Ah, yes. That.

See, that's a good thing. It being on par. My problem right now is that it stacks with it. I noticed this tends to make characters (mine especially, by the way) inordinately strong.

For instance, my character follows a simple build: Charismatic Hero 3/Shinobi Adept 3/Soul Knight 3/Genjutsu Master 7/Devastator 5/(Technique Analyst 2). This being after 83 games, of course...

Pretty standard stuff. The Soul Knight class is something I made to complement the soul blade stuff, but it's inconsequential.

The character, using Strength and Speed 5, Mangekyou Sharingan and an excellent weapon attacks at +32/+27/+22 melee, 1d10+15+1d6 (3d10+30+1d6 on a crit).

Also, he enjoys Def 43, an excellent spot check and the benefits of seeing chakra.



My point? Alone, a bloodline or speed isn't enough. Together? It's... devastating.
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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[SirShadow]

These are also epics we're talking about... where normal rules go out the window and batshit crazy stuff can happen.

[Frankto]

His defense and attack bonus since he gained epic changed by +1 and +2 respectively. The point is still valid.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[Athildur]

[Frankto]

Agreed. Inequality between players doesn't set a very good atmosphere to play in because your stats have such a huge impact on your character's performance.

Point buy, arrays or anything that will give everyone a fair chance is much better than rolling stats.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!

[SirShadow]

I usually allow my players to roll and then opp for point buy if it's unworkable.

[Athildur]

It still doesn't make right that your level 1 Smart hero has a much better attack roll than your level 1 Strong hero.

Using arrays or point-buy assures everyone that each player has equally great (or little) potential. Rather than allowing one person to be completely awesome when the rest of your party is just normal/mediocre. It doesn't set the mood well, and I generally refuse to play games where stats are rolled. Even though I'm usually in the group of people that rolls quite well.
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Oy, this is going to be troublesome *sigh*

[Shun]

It's completely fair to roll for stats and it's the original method, god bless gygax.

You don't go into a casino and tell the dealer "it's not fair" because you lost your bet and the otehr guy won. Where's the sense in that logic? Odds are he bet just as hard as you did and has the same amount of luck.

Edit: If some players do generally roll bad, you can set a "minimum" stat score should they fail to roll equal to/or above it. Since I for example roll averages of 16+ I'll let my player's (when I GM) have no less then 13 in order to avoid negatives but still get atleast a +1.

You have to look at it like this; You're average person's stats are around 10 or less, so anyone with stats higher then that are above average. All that means is you just have to think out your strategies and actually roleplay your character's weaknesses.

@Athildur you really hate dice huh?
_________________

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*

[Naruto20D20]

[Athildur]

[Athildur]

[Mizuno Kaitsu]

Im kind of with Shun on this one. I played a character once and by build.. ended up having an 8 in intelligence. Best roleplay campaign ever, lol. He ended up dying because someone convinced him that they'd taught him an Invisibility Ninjutsu, when in actuality.... that person used Shundou and he failed the spot check to see them to know otherwise. So, they showed him some fake hand seals and played along when he used the 'technique'.

Any case, what I'm getting to.. is that stats make a big part of roleplay. Roleplay is hilarious. Don't slaughter the roleplay, lol.
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Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

[SirShadow]

Right, but even if you have good stat rolls, it doesn't mean anything unless you know what you're doing.

A person with good stats that's unoptimized probably won't do better than someone with subpar stats that is fully optimized. I think skill level between players is potentially balance breaking enough to not have to even worry about a slight different in rolls.

[Hito Hyuga]

[Athildur]

[Dairius_Chi]

@Althidur
Amen brother! i like rolling stats for high power games 9my lowest set ion teh last 4 i think was two 15's, two 16's, and two 18's) but i always feel bad for teh guy who has like...three 13's and highest is a single 16, because i always do way better then him, and it isnt really fair

im also a bit of an optmizer, only recently have i been able to get more into teh roleplaying aspect of it, but if the gm doesnt havea choice i usually vote for point buy

equal chances to be awesome doesnt mean everyone will be, so in teh end, its fair chance, not fair outcome, or rather not EQUAL outcome, i dont go into a casino and say "thats not fair" but everyone playing the game doesnt get the same amount of money back, so it isnt equal

although, low stats can always be made up for with 50 exploding tags on yer low stats character, you kill teh boss (provided no evasion) and get to remake him/her!

[Shun]

[Frankto]

It doesn't take a skilled GM to give a party a challenge, or to make a certain monster a difficult encounter. All that takes is a bit of imagination and an acceptable grasp on the rules.

What does require a skilled GM is weaving it in to the story and making sure it isn't too much of a challenge.



Inequity isn't a good way to start a campaign. Everyone's different, yes, I completely agree. Everyone IS different. But the players? They are different from everybody in that they are extraordinary, and each one should have the same chance at being extraordinary.

Handing a new player with a set of stats that looks like this isn't going to make him want to play more, it'll make him have a terrible time because he doesn't know what he's doing in the first place and his character blows: 12 14 8 11 10 14.

That might have been okay in AD&D. And sure, it's above human average, slightly. But as mentioned earlier, you're not human average, you're the protagonist--you kill dragons, evil ninjas and get through all sorts of crisis to get to where you'll end up being.

Putting a cap on how low a stat can be when you roll for stats is admitting that the system is flawed. It's admitting that you don't want someone to get shafted. It's also admitting that you don't want them to be below average. If your minimum is 10, then you are admitting that you don't want your players to be below average. However, if you don't have a cap on how high a stat can be (below 18 being the maximum), then how is that fair? It isn't, is it?

You are arguing that leaving your generation of ability score completely up to chance, forcefully imposing limits to how much it can suck and therefore recognizing it is unfair, it better and more just than letting your players attribute their points in point buy however they want. Go figure.
_________________
"It's like making a cake, but instead of a cake it's a game and instead of frosting I have no life."

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Thanks to all who donated! Your generosity is what keeps the project going!