My opinion

Dairius_Chi · Situationally Useful Joined: 02 Jun 2010 Posts: 2633

they shouldve just skipped 4th ed and gone to 5th, there i said it

SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

Agree'd

Frankto · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:10 am Post subject:

It's a pretty incredible edition when you start to delve deeper into it. The only downside I can see so far is that the class abilities are very streamlined and linear. But on the GM's side... it's fantastic.

Also magic items. But that's another story altogether.
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Shun · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:28 am Post subject:

It's easy (and as stated above) more streamlined which is great for the combat flow of D&D. It's fun though once you get into it.
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Frankto · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:37 am Post subject:

If you have the DMG 2, skip to page 136 and read that. Page 144-145 especially is neat.
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ultima22689 · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 285

I don't get it. I've been playing 3.5 for a few years and despite the complexity of it I really have a hard time understanding 4th edition.

Chaos4knuckles · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:32 am Post subject:

To me its to easy, which I find boring. (yes, if something is easy to me , I dislike it, its the way my mind works)
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Athildur · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:33 am Post subject:

You people is crazy!

I love 4th edition. And I'm of the personal opinion that at least 25% of the people that don't like 4th don't like it just because it's not like 3rd.

Guess what, TOUGH.

4th Edition is a great game system that takes the idea of the D&D RPG and makes it easier to play, quicker to play, and less 'let me check that one book for that one rule I think there is'. The system was designed to make combat easier, classes more balanced, and to give everyone a similar fighting chance.

I think they succeeded at this very, very well. I like 3.0 and 3.5, I think they're great. But I also think they're cluttered, hopelessly complicated, and the umpteen gazillion books that were added to it contain so many broken rules and contradictions that, as a GM, it's almost impossible to block out broken-ness from your games. And that's a sad thing.

4e might, in the long run, contain some brokenness as well, but because of the way they designed classes and powers to work, it's highly unlikely that this will happen.

Instead of generically whining in all directions that they should just stop with 4e, how about an intelligent discussion about the merits of the system, and which parts of it you think are detrimental to the system?

and ultima: Really? I can't understand how you could possibly get 3.5e and not understand 4e. That just blows my mind. In a bad way.
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Dairius_Chi · Situationally Useful Joined: 02 Jun 2010 Posts: 2633

I do not dislike 4th edition because it isnt 3rd, and honestly, if ONLY 25% dont like it cuz of their fanboyism thats pretty good, you know how many people liked ff12 just because it was another ff? too many, thats how many

and personnaly, i think 5th edition would be awesome because i dont know what it is yet, so i shall wait and be probably disappointed back into using pathfinder in a few years or so

SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

4th edition... is extremely boring.

It's very much less open-ended as far as classes go. Every rogue is going to have the same stats and follow the same progression because optimization is clear to see and follow. For the sake of balance, there are too many similarities in the characters and things that usually define you, like feats and skills, really matter very little in the long run.

If you wanna say it's funner b/c it's faster, then... well go ahead. I play 3.5 with people that have a near-encyclopedic knowledge of the rules... any discussion of what a rule says usually takes 5 seconds to resolve. I can't remember the last time I had a problem with pacing of the game due to an uncertain rule. I'll agree, 4e is much easier for a new person to just pick up and play, but for me, I would never want to play it.

Also, what GM has trouble stopping brokenness? You just say "no".

Athildur · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:10 am Post subject:

Frankto · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:25 am Post subject:

ultima22689 · Kage Joined: 15 Apr 2008 Posts: 285

Athildur · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:37 pm Post subject:

Naruto20D20 · Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 8:55 pm Post subject:

I personally think that 4E is awesome, but it seems all the reasons I could give have already been mentioned. As such, I'll just nod in approval.

If anyone wanted to play a pretty good 4e adventure path, try out Scales of War (published by Wizards in the Dungeon magazine). The path it gives you is pretty damn good, and it even gives you ideas for side quests in case your party doesn't want to follow the path completely (IE, they help you not to rail road, which I suppose is common on these preset adventures).
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Dairius_Chi · Situationally Useful Joined: 02 Jun 2010 Posts: 2633

well...here's how i learned i didn't like 4th edition

i played it first, and it seemed really cool...then i found 3.5, end of story

i also have a near encyclopedic knowledge of dnd, i even subconsciously memorized what page numbers different spell letters started at because my pdf didnt have the find function (cant highlight writing, its like pictures) and teh only parts that still confuse me are things like grapple and other combat maneuvers(by pathfinder name) such as trip disarm etc

anyways...i hate ranting because i make walsl of text, very little punctuation and proper spelling, makes me feel stupid...but yeah, i dont like 4th edition because even though it was what i started with, 3.5 was just...better

Felix_Zyphros · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 2:08 am Post subject:

As a player, I hate how it forces the idea of linear playing on someone. It's like they sterilized most of the creativity in combining character ideas into something that will make the other player's jaws drop. It lacks a certain soul to the game, that you can find elsewhere without investing another thousand dollars in books.

As a DM, it's easier to run without digging through the core books for an odd ruling, or having the rewrite the entire campaign layout because a player decided to ressurect a vital npc.

They took out the soul of the game to make it easier for DM's to run. Essentialy, WotC made dungeons and dragons into roleplaying communism. The only thing is, we have yet to see whether this edition implodes on itself such as Russia, or is able to adapt and change such as China.
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SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

<_< I'd also like to add that another reason I hate this edition is b/c it ruined Faerun.

chaoticangel97 · Younin Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 384

Athildur · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 10:20 am Post subject:

...

(no, really, that's about all I can say to that)
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SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

sry I am (was) a devout reader of Forgotten Realms?

Shun · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:40 am Post subject:

next thing you'll tell me is you're a big fan of drizzt and played a good drow at some point of time.. who (hopefully not) dual weilded scimitars and also took the ranger class with a panther familiar... Evil or Very Mad

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Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*

Frankto · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject:

Drizzt was good in the first two books (somewhat in the third). After that...

He killed Zaknafein, both by proxy and literally! Jerk.
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SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

If you're asking if I read R. A. Salvatore's books? Yea. He's the reason I got into Forgotten Realms. I read his Star Wars books and then noticed he wrote other stuff.

But no, I never played a Drow... it's such a terrible race from a mechanics stand-point.

Fredto · Mr. Grumpy Joined: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 297 Location: Canada

As for the "edition war" that's been going on since time immemorial, I always wondered why people can't agree on the fact that some people will like it and some other people won't.

It feels like a "my dad is stronger than your dad" contest, to be honest.

I like the 4th and there are some good points in 3.5 too.
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Frankto · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:10 pm Post subject:

Variety being the main good point. And what a good point it is...
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Geomancer · Demon Lord Joined: 05 Sep 2006 Posts: 835

I don't have anything against 4th, really. It is just too... simple. Call me a masochist but I love going through all these books, looking for new things to do. Plus the fact that I download the books because I'm not a millionaire and don't have the money to buy them all makes my choice easier.

My biggest complaint is their version of the warforged. I loved all their immunities, that was the reason I played them. But in 4th ed, they seem to have lost most of them.

Athildur · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:15 pm Post subject:

Killercloud · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject:

Okay so my overall opinion of 4e Vs 3e.

Well when I first played D&D 3e I felt that it was interesting but had about 80 pages of rules that were just annoying but what always brought me back was that Each class had a different feel all together. When I play 4e I feel more like its all one angry blob of the same.

However, I also love Running 4e. Its far more streamlined. I would personally perfer it to make the classes not all be based on the exact same chart of progression but hey. Tis life.
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Athildur · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:06 pm Post subject: