My opinion

Killercloud · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:10 pm Post subject:

See I don't have a big problem with 4e, but my players hate it.
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Athildur · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:22 pm Post subject:

Your players need to learn to give it a chance.

And by that, I don't mean cling desperately to their convictions that the game sucks but grudgingly play a game or 2 because the GM demands it, then demanding to switch back because 4e sucks so much.

Because that seems to be the brunt of people that hate 4e and 'give it a chance' seem to do.
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SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

Killercloud · Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 9:30 pm Post subject:

Well, the biggest problem is most of them liked to play as things other than base races and LOVED older lore Forgotten Realms. So to catter to them I made an alternate history and everything and then got complaints about how did it all change so much then...and basically they are nazis
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Ketsukage · Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 3:48 pm Post subject:

I am also not a fan of 4e. I do recognize that it's an impressive accomplishment from a game development standpoint. It's very well balanced, and very easy to use. However, when playing it I can't help but feel like I'm playing a computer game that requires more work than most. I feel that the class mechanics have sacrificed diversity for balance to a large degree. I also dislike the radical revamp of Faerun. A lot of the changes are necessary, it's true, but I do not like what appeared to be dramatic alteration of the world's geography just to incorporate an "oh-so-cool" dragon race from thin air. Bleh. Catering to dragon fanbois to such a degree fills me with an irrational hatred.

My biggest reason for disliking the system is it's restraints on your creativity. I thoroughly enjoyed trying new things in 3.5 and continue to do so in Pathfinder. Things like adventures that playtest the balance of a fully classed PC versus one with an ECL caused by a template. Occasionally I've played games where the PC's were all some monstrous race.. seemingly impossible in a 4e game. My favorite setting was Planescape, where it's not unheard of to find things like Illithid PCs.

chaoticangel97 · Younin Joined: 03 Sep 2009 Posts: 384

Alright, well my first post seemed a little stupid now that i reread it a couple times. I really didn't like what they did with Faerun(big fan of all the Forgotten Realms books, and not just those written by Salvatore) and that really turned me away from 4th at first, but i'll admit that is a bad reason not to like 4th. Personally I actually enjoy 4th edition as a system, it's easy to play/run and makes for good one shots when nobody wants to spend forever making a character. However while i like it as a system it just doesn't really feel like i'm playing D&D when i play it, to me it honestly sometimes feels more like i'm playing WoW on paper.

Athildur · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:50 am Post subject:

That's because everyone's been playing 3/3.5 for years, and you're used to that. 4e is so different, it's not that odd you don't really file like it's D&D anymore...
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Ketsukage · Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:57 pm Post subject:

Felix_Zyphros · Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:11 am Post subject:

cmkawasaki · Lazy Programmer Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3388

Athildur · Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:01 am Post subject:

Felix_Zyphros · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 8:51 am Post subject:

XP penalty doesn't apply if the classes are within 1 level of eachother, nor does it apply for favored classes or prestige classes Razz

Honestly, I wouldn't have so much of a problem with 4e if I didn't have to go out and buy hundreds of dollars worth of books again. That, and since the group I primarily game with have already decided to stick 4e on the bottom of the playing list, I don't see myself playing 4e anytime in the near future.

@cm- That's why you have the fighter 2.0, aka warblade.No longer just limited to smacking the enemy around. Heck, I've got a nice and easy number of stances/manuevers you can combine by level 15 (or 20 if you want to dual-stance it) that let's you hit everyone in a 10ft burst twice (15ft burst twice if you use say, a spiked chain) and deal rending damage for each hit.
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And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.
? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

Frankto · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 9:08 am Post subject:

Warblade is easily the strongest class ever produced in the entirety of 3.5, including all the brokenness of delay spell, metamagics and everything. Fighter has nothing--nothing--on it.
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cmkawasaki · Lazy Programmer Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3388

SirShadow · Biffu Aroi Joined: 10 May 2009 Posts: 2654

I like the 3.5 fighter... granted I never go more than 5 levels in it before PrC'ing out, but the same can be said for any class...

Frankto · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:12 am Post subject:

Hito Hyuga · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:16 am Post subject:

Well, one thing about 4e I don't like is how classes are done when a sorcerer or wizard can have almost 20hp or higher at first level, you know something is wrong. I'd like to try a game of it once to get a better grasp, but with that kind of hp you lose the feel that magic users are somewhat frail even if they also changed the damage to compensate for the extra hp.

Frankto · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:17 am Post subject:

There's a very good reason for that: it decreases the rate of mortality at low levels.
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Hito Hyuga · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:41 am Post subject:

That's true, and for new players its good, but for a player who is experienced as a spellcaster that's like giving a child the keys to a candy store, which we all know is a very bad idea. I'd only recommend such a system to new players, with the knowledge that this would only serve to prepare them for a much harder system, but that's just me.

Jensik · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 10:56 am Post subject:

A wizard with 24 HP won't seem so bad when you realize your tanks have double you HP value and amount if healing surges. Also when an orc skirmisher hits you for 13 damage and bloodies you in the first round, you'll definitely feel squishy.
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Hito Hyuga · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:05 am Post subject:

If a caster gets caught in melee he isn't doing his job, I never let myself be in melee as a caster, ever.

Athildur · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:02 pm Post subject:

D&D 3.5 : You get a crit from a shortbow. You DIE. Enough said.
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Hito Hyuga · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:45 pm Post subject:

Well, I can say, that has never happened to me. The only time I got hit for a crit was in Naruto d20 and that was because the technique provoked critical damage no roll.

cmkawasaki · Lazy Programmer Joined: 21 May 2005 Posts: 3388

You have certainly not played enough games then, or maybe your DM dislikes criting his players. In my campaign, it's common to see at least one critical per battle, either from players or the DM's rolls.

Use a Chisagatana, and you will most certainly Crit. Use a Keirigan User, and you will probably see a Scythe Critical - x4 for the win.

Athildur · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 1:50 pm Post subject:

Jensik · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:24 pm Post subject:

Frankto · Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 7:59 pm Post subject:

Felix_Zyphros · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:49 pm Post subject:

Felix_Zyphros · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:57 pm Post subject:

Frankto · Posted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:06 pm Post subject:

Warblade with a Keen, X Burst Fullblade of Speed can attack 10 times in one round at 2d8+38+1d6 (4d8+76+1d6+1d10 on a 17-20 crit) with mild power attack (-5) and do it again every 2 rounds.

Time Stands Still is reason enough. On the average monster, if you hit 7 times, you'll do around 450 damage (around 625 if you hit 10 times). Repeatedly. Forever. Or you can use a scythe and do damage in the thousands.

Or, of course, you could be Wrb 17/Bbn 1/Frenzied Berserker 5 at level 23 and break everything.

(And this is why nobody ever lets me play a warblade, ever. I am now in the process of demonstrating how to break a barbarian without use of the Scythe, as well.)
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