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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No Genjutsu user should ever be like Maro. Making Kyushojutsu helped to open my eyes to new possibilities a great deal, though.
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Jensik
Sharkbait


Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maro was anything but a conventional Genjutsu user.

To the main point, though.. you're making it sound like being in a support role is a bad thing. Support characters provide a crucial role in combat: control. Can a party survive without it? Sure, but they're going to be taking a lot more hits along the way.

Genjutsu users are not often hindered in battle, unless you find yourself in a campaign filled with mindless undead or constructs. Very few enemies in the standard Naruto-verse are immune to Mind-Affecting techniques.
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SirShadow
Biffu Aroi


Joined: 10 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Honestly, I'd just look through 3.5's Illusion spell list for inspiration... there's a s***-ton of stuff there. Some good, some not, but everything could be improved upon or inspire stuff for genjutsu users to do.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been there already, Shadow.
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Village Hidden in the Night

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NinjaCP wrote:
Felix_Zephyros wrote:
On a different note, is there a way on these forums to have an auto-ignore? These trolls are getting annoying.


It's not nearly as bad as a couple years ago. You know who I'm talking about.


Do you mean doto-
*vanishes in a puff of acrid black smoke*

Ahem, ok, I'm back.... Oddly, my pants are missing, and a bear with a canadian flag draped on his back was threatening me with some pancakes, but to continue...

No one wants to do battlefield control, unless you can pull off cool stuff like http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html <-this.
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Felix_Zyphros wrote:
No one wants to do battlefield control, unless you can pull off cool stuff like http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0448.html <-this.


I kind of do, actually. But that's mostly because I've been there and done that way too many times with the high damage characters.
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Shun
Shinobigami


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1262
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know how you guys think Genjutsu is weak/need to be made "cooler", sure Genjutsu doesn't have the lethality in itself to off somebody but combined with the fact you can use it to coupe de grace your target(s) it's pretty great (unconscious, paralyze etc). Especially since not to many creatures have the Will to make the saves.
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Hito Hyuga
Shinobigami


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, I have a lot of fun with Genjutsu, one character actually took the time to learn about his target, and found out a few of his fears. Let's just say, it was one horrible 3 rounds for that guy, all 10 on his fears packed into one Genjutsu, can't remember what they were.

Anyway, I think Genjutsu is cool enough, it just sounds like some people want it to be omg hax epic which it can already be, cause not every NPC should have a high will save.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It isn't that Genjutsu is weak or necessarily uncool, it's just not interesting enough. The idea isn't to make it too strong, but rather to make the genjutsu user a serious threat when encountered alone, more than just a Wil save, instead of simply "Meh, I can do that."
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Shun
Shinobigami


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
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Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't really, understand what you're going for. From the way I'm reading your new post you just want more techniques that deal damage or non-lethal damage. If that's the issue, it's not to hard.
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Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Village Hidden in the Night

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mind giving some examples Frankto?
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are a lot of ways to be a threat that don't necessarily involve lots of damage. One of my favorite tricks as a genjutsu master was to make people kill themselves, or attempt to, anyway.

Blindness, nausea, crippling pain, genjutsu chains and combos that have devastating effects, the list goes on.
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Hito Hyuga
Shinobigami


Joined: 24 Nov 2008
Posts: 1432
Location: the shadows behind you

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, Genjutsu has many applications, I love playing with Genjutsu. You can also turn your foes against each other by making their "allies" appear as an enemy while making it where they can't hear the voice of their "ally"
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Shun
Shinobigami


Joined: 04 Apr 2006
Posts: 1262
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
There are a lot of ways to be a threat that don't necessarily involve lots of damage. One of my favorite tricks as a genjutsu master was to make people kill themselves, or attempt to, anyway.

Blindness, nausea, crippling pain, genjutsu chains and combos that have devastating effects, the list goes on.
Way ahead of you there, though I personally keep "suicide" inducing genjutsu as kinjutsu. There's plenty of others... so it's just a matter of inspiration.
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Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added some interesting newstuff.
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king_malice
Genin


Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 7:11 am    Post subject: wrestling moves Reply with quote

Here's some wrestling moves

Hurricanrana

sleeper hold

ankle lock

military press

side walk slam - might want to change sidewalk to road for translating

moonsault - moon flip or roll

arm drag -

underhook shoulder lock

Kimura

russian leg sweep

flying headbutt

atomic drop

electric chair

irish whip

suplex - and it's clones : belly2belly, fisherman's, german, hanging, etc....

frog splash

spear
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Added the new seals and some new stuff. I no longer need wrestling move names.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hokay, seriously. Everyone I talk to goes "I can't think of anything" so I'm going to ask you guys.


It feels like something's missing from the update, and I don't want to release something incomplete. Any ideas what it might be?

Hint: It's not the elemental combination bloodlines, the strength or speed bloodline, the seal master class, the master strategist class, the living puppeteer class, the new jinchuuriki system, the new genjutsu stuff, or the kikai bloodline stuff.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The quicker I get this done, the quicker the update is out, by the by.
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could it possibly be the sage system?
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No. -_-
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FirebrandHeretic
Genin


Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Philly

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, if it's also not a handful of new techniques and/or some surprise weaponry--I'm always happy to see new Sound jutsu, or a class for it. ^_^ Though, I don't *actually* expect it.

Now for something useful: I remember a bit ago reading about someone wanting to see a shift or change in the Mastery steps. Could that be it? I'm not too good at helping with this stuff, but I try. ^_^
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Village Hidden in the Night

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait, are we talking about something new here, that's being added?

You do realize you almost never tell us what's going to be in the next update....

It's kinda like trying to read your mind here.
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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SirShadow
Biffu Aroi


Joined: 10 May 2009
Posts: 2654

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Next Update (Yes, we can) Reply with quote

Frankto wrote:
[list]New:


Feats:
[*]Concealed Technique [Meta-Chakra]
[*]Underhanded Technician [Meta-Chakra]

Equipment:
[*]Added Muscle Growth drug

Techniques:
[*]Kinjutsu: Seishinkugi (Forbidden Technique: Immortal Soul Sacrifice)
[*]Kyujutsu: Kisshi (Bow Art: Basic Shot)
[*]Ninpou: Kibaku Fuuda no Wana (Ninja Art: Paper Bomb Trap)
[*]Ninpou: Shurikenjutsu - Renken (Ninja Art: Shuriken Skill - Shuriken Barrage)
[*]Ninpou: Shurikenjutsu - Tarenken (Ninja Art: Shuriken Skill - Greater Shuriken Barrage)
[*]Shinobi Hiken: Chakra Toushi (Shinobi Secrets: Chakra Sight)
[*]Taijutsu: Dachi - Kakutou Waza (Hand-to-Hand: Stance - Grappling Style)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu - Risai Butsu (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style - Lariat)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu - Rairi Nettou (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style - Lightning Plow Cleaver)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Ganso Bakudan (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Powerbomb)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Raiga Bakudan (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Lightning Crash Superbomb)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Nodowa Otoshi (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Chokeslam)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Kubiwari Otoshi (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Super Chokeslam)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Tsuriotoshi (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Bodyslam)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuu Nage - Gokushou Tsuriotoshi (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style Throws - Supreme Bodyslam)
[*]Taijutsu: Juuryuugyaku - Rairi Hangeki (Taijutsu: Ten-Ton Style - Thunder Plow Counter)

Friends and Foes:
[*]Added Remote Sensing
[*]Messenger Birds

Ninja Tools:
[*]Added Chakra Current weapon seal
[*]Added Concealing armor seal
[*]Added Eluding armor seal
[*]Added Flickering armor seal
[*]Added Fragmentation armor seal
[*]Added Gliding armor seal
[*]Added Nullstep armor seal
[*]Added Powerlift armor seal
[*]Added Resilient armor seal
[*]Added Restraining armor seal
[*]Added Speed armor seal
[*]Added Strength armor seal

Gamemastering:
[*]Added Huge optional village type


Modifications:

Basic Game Mechanics:
[*]Elemental affinity now gives resistance against the element you are strong against

Basic Classes:
[*]Charismatic Hero now has Chakra Control as a class skill
[*]Smart Hero now has Chakra Control as a class skill
[*]Fast Hero now has Genjutsu as a class skill
[*]Strong Hero now has Genjutsu as a class skill
[*]Dedicated Hero now has Ninjutsu as a class skill
[*]Tough Hero now has Ninjutsu as a class skill

Feats:
[*]Hachimon Tonkou feat renamed Initiate of the Eight Celestial Gates and now has prerequisites.

Prestige Classes:
[*]The Exarch's Medical Miracle can now only be used once per day, or benefitted from once per week

Equipment:
[*]Heavy and Light Vest armor removed (!!!)
[*]Ninja Cloak armor placed by the Reinforced Suit (!!!)
[*]Long Katana is now an archaic weapon (!!)
[*]Fullblade is now an archaic weapon with special conditions (!!)
[*]The shuriken and throwing knives are now treated as ammunition when thrown and for the purpose of enhancing them with seals (!!!)
[*]A chakra control check is now required to charge exploding tags rather than setting them off.

Techniques:
[*]All Speed and Strength rank training now additional requirements
[*]The cost to empower most techniques was reduced slightly: all fractions were eliminated (!!!)
[*]Kairai Engeki: Kengakuryokou slightly altered.
[*]Akuma no Tsubasa renamed to Hikiro Renken
[*]En'en no Shuriken is now Kaen Shuriken
[*]Edo Tensei technique reworked and updated. (!!)
[*]Hakken and Inuhana no Jutsu now both have requirements
[*]Kakusu Nioi mechanics reworked.
[*]Gogyou techniques now renamed to Godai (Godai Taigeki and Godai Ransatsu)
[*]The base cost of the Godai Taigeki and Godai Ransatsu techniques was reduced slightly.
[*]Shinobi Hiken: Sakki can now be used to cancel out killing intent on oneself.
[*]Koemane and Nakimane are now training techniques.

Bloodlines:
[*]The chakra cost paid during doujutsu implant process now allows the bloodline to be deactivated normally. (!!)
[*]Child of the Wild now has the Boost Scent ability.

Summoning:
[*]Concept of summon tribes introduced
[*]All animal summons as well as the Slug summon are now magical beasts (base attack bonus remains unchanged)

Epic:
[*]The power ranks have been modified slightly

Enhancement Seals:
[*]The following enhancement seals power now only deal half weapon damage as energy damage: Acid burst, chilling, cold burst, earth shock, flame burst, hurricane force, pulsing, quaking, scorching, screaming burst, shocking burst, squalling, surging, tidal force
he never tells us anything?
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Village Hidden in the Night

PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fine, no one ever tells me anything -_-'
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Archangel
Super Pervert
Super Pervert


Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 616
Location: Vinland

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like style A, but it's a bit wordy... if you're looking for streamline, go with C. I have no idea if you were looking for more input in this area or not, but I felt I should help. I have no idea if this is what is missing or not, but a guideline for players on How to Create Techniques (that are balanced and whatnot) would be useful. If there already is one, I apologize and will read it when the update comes out!
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Balance is in the eye of the GM. I'm not going to tell the GM what is balanced and what isn't. And no, that wasn't what was missing.
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Felix_Zyphros
Shinobigami


Joined: 06 Jun 2006
Posts: 1049
Location: Village Hidden in the Night

PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are, however, the guy who gives the final OK on if a technique is in the pdf. I think he means a formula that would give a technique which would get the Frankto brand seal of approval.
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Wed Dec 08, 2010 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still sick. Update comes tomorrow.
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Frankto
Shinobigami


Joined: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 7357
Location: Canada

PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As promised.
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