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Shuriken Flurry help

 
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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:28 am    Post subject: Shuriken Flurry help Reply with quote

Okay, I'm making a TWF halfling Ninja 11/Master Thrower 5/Monk 3 (using shuriken) I get 4 attacks +23/+18/+13/+8 (factoring in my dex plus my size bonus for being small) I recently found that the TWF tree can be used in conjunction with flurry of blows (sadly, I can't use the halfling skiprock with this or things would get really out of hand) with flurry+rapid shot my on-hand attacks with flurry become +19/+19/+19/+14/+10/+4 factoring in all my TWF attacks it'll be +20/+20/+20/+15/+15/+10/+10/+5 and these are touch attack on any creature small or larger, flat-footed for me being invisible (or ethereal and taking a 5ft step underground)

adding in that I'll have +5 frost flaming shocking corrosive teleporting shurikens (so all those attacks are +5 higher XD) the total damage I can crank out would be (for each attack) Sudden strike: 6d6 (each attack) Energy damage: 4d6 (each attack) +5 (enhancement bonus) 1+5 (each attack and dead eye feat grants dex mod to damage vs creatures I can crit on) I can throw 2 shuriken per attack (only get sudden strike damage on the first hit of each palm throw) my only fear right now is an armor (I believe the enhancement is called magnetic) is there anyway to get around magnetic armor, or any way I can use halfling skiprock with flurry?

Edit: I have the ascetic stalker feat.

My next question is, should I take Perfect Two Weapon fighting, and will I still get the extra attacks from the other TWF feats? Thanks in advance for the help (I apologize for the LONG explanation)

Perfect Two-Weapon Fighting [Epic]
Prerequisites
Dex 25, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting.

Benefit
The character can make as many attacks with his or her off-hand weapon as with his or her primary weapon, using the same base attack bonus. The character still takes the normal penalties for fighting with two weapons.

Normal
Without this feat, a character can only get a single attack with an off-hand weapon (or two attacks with an off-hand weapon if he or she has Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, or three attacks with an off-hand weapon if he or she has Greater Two-Weapon Fighting).


Last edited by Hito Hyuga on Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You realize shuriken are ammunition for the purposes of buying/enchanting/what happens after they are thrown. So all those shuriken have a 50% chance of breaking if they miss, and do break if they don't.
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I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My DM said that was stupid, so Shuriken don't break.
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Shun
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must say your GM is stupid for obvious reasons of misusing "magic" ammunition. There's a reason they can't be re-used, it's called game balance. Wink
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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See, the issue is, all the players, and the gm, find it stupid that "masterwork" items break heck.... do you know howm much HP a magic item has? for every +1 it gains 10 hp and 2 hardness.... so a +5 shuriken has an extra 50 hp and 10 hardness.... So if we take into account projectile weapons have a base hardness and hp of 5 tack on the bonus from being enhanced that is now 15 hardness and 55 hp now... please tell me how throwing that breaks it? What logical conclusion can shine light on that, not to mention the weapon is treated as masterwork.... I'm sorry, if anything it should not break, some "masterwork" item if after being used once it breaks.


You speak of game balance, but where is the game balance where your weapon of choice breaks after hitting (or has a 50% break chance) when it is not only masterwork but magically enhanced. Let's not even get into different metals (such as adamantine which has 20 base hardness, so it'd have 30 from enhancements and 90 hp with a base of 40 so really..... I don't see a logical reason for it breaking) now a base Shuriken with the 5 hardness and 5 hp I can see breaking, it's fragile but honestly.... onces its been enhanced as such... breaking is almost system-wise impossible, no matter what "ruling" they slap onto it. If they really want them breakable, they should disallow them enhancements, the inability to be masterworked, and unable to be crafted from really durable material. /rant Now, back onto the topic here.... regardless of my DMs choice of balance, can someone help me with the content in the Original Post, please.


Edit: I'd like to also take the time to point out, a single strike from my character (bar Sudden Strike) is unable to even come close to the 50 damage needed to "ruin" a weapon so enhanced.
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cmkawasaki
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hito Hyuga wrote:
See, the issue is, all the players, and the gm, find it stupid that "masterwork" items break heck.... do you know howm much HP a magic item has? for every +1 it gains 10 hp and 2 hardness.... so a +5 shuriken has an extra 50 hp and 10 hardness.... So if we take into account projectile weapons have a base hardness and hp of 5 tack on the bonus from being enhanced that is now 15 hardness and 55 hp now... please tell me how throwing that breaks it? What logical conclusion can shine light on that, not to mention the weapon is treated as masterwork.... I'm sorry, if anything it should not break, some "masterwork" item if after being used once it breaks.


You speak of game balance, but where is the game balance where your weapon of choice breaks after hitting (or has a 50% break chance) when it is not only masterwork but magically enhanced. Let's not even get into different metals (such as adamantine which has 20 base hardness, so it'd have 30 from enhancements and 90 hp with a base of 40 so really..... I don't see a logical reason for it breaking) now a base Shuriken with the 5 hardness and 5 hp I can see breaking, it's fragile but honestly.... onces its been enhanced as such... breaking is almost system-wise impossible, no matter what "ruling" they slap onto it. If they really want them breakable, they should disallow them enhancements, the inability to be masterworked, and unable to be crafted from really durable material. /rant Now, back onto the topic here.... regardless of my DMs choice of balance, can someone help me with the content in the Original Post, please.


Edit: I'd like to also take the time to point out, a single strike from my character (bar Sudden Strike) is unable to even come close to the 50 damage needed to "ruin" a weapon so enhanced.


It's not unbalanced, under the following addition - since the blade doesn't break, you don't get the discount of mass ammunition off the price of the ammunition, correct? Because you could say the 1/50th price is because they made a one-use 'bomb' that does that much damage.

Assuming that it's not discounted, that also makes your halfling a very, very rich man to purchase such expensive ammunition. As in richer than most PC's should ever get at level 20. Ever.

The answer to your feat question is yes, you will still get the extra attacks from the other TWF feats.
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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still gonna have to be rich, I have to replace my weapons more than everyone else. If we get into a fight where I have to go all out (flurry with those shuriken) I'll lose 18 of them, per round. If I can't sudden strike odds are I wont deal enough damage. I can understand, price-wise, why they break now, I must've missed where ammunition cost less and the things my GM is running us up against... I'll be out of shuriken in about 4 rounds (to maybe quarter somethings health) and now he;s decided to make my ammunition break he's so far letting his girlfriend do whatever she wants (heck, as it stands, she is the only one who will actually "win" this little game as she was given an item to OHKO the strongest NPC in the bunch which not a one of us can deal damage to)
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Felix_Zyphros
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're better off dropping the monk levels. In fact, drop ninja too. The class is good in theory, poor in execution. Straight up Rogue/Master Thrower works best.

Get rapid shot and far shot for feats, maybe improved rapid shot later on.

Lose the idea about having shuriken for weapons. They deal damage that 90% of level 20 foes will ignore, and all epic level foes will ignore. Daggers with the Sizing mod work best, as they'll give you the most damage you can get.


If you GM is giving his girlfriend tons of stuff, just leave the game. There's no point in playing with a DM who favors people.
_________________
I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

? Bene Gesserit Litany Against Fear, Dune

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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why don't you just put Returning on them?
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or, you could do the smart thing, and ask for a pouch of endless shuriken, like any good archer will have his quiver of enless arrows.
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SirShadow
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

except those don't usually come with +5 blah blah blah shuriken
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Frankto
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Says who?
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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirShadow wrote:
Why don't you just put Returning on them?


Teleporting is better

Felix_Zyphros wrote:
You're better off dropping the monk levels. In fact, drop ninja too. The class is good in theory, poor in execution. Straight up Rogue/Master Thrower works best.

Get rapid shot and far shot for feats, maybe improved rapid shot later on.

Lose the idea about having shuriken for weapons. They deal damage that 90% of level 20 foes will ignore, and all epic level foes will ignore. Daggers with the Sizing mod work best, as they'll give you the most damage you can get.

Frankto wrote:
Or, you could do the smart thing, and ask for a pouch of endless shuriken, like any good archer will have his quiver of endless arrows.


that's nice.... wonder if I can get that for halfling skiprocks...

If you GM is giving his girlfriend tons of stuff, just leave the game. There's no point in playing with a DM who favors people.


actually... that would not work with what I have now is better. Ninja I can go invisible master thrower to get touch attacks flurry with my weapons I can dole out massive damage.
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Shun
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SirShadow wrote:
except those don't usually come with +5 blah blah blah shuriken
They do if you have enough funds and someone with the skill to enchant/create said item...
_________________

Be the Ultimate Ninja! Play Billy Vs. SNAKEMAN today!

Sengoku System
Me: the hizoku attacks you with his yari, your actions?

Max: I evade with a 13 and counter attack with a 1,000... *pause for silence*
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Hito Hyuga
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Joined: 24 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

question... is there anything that allows me to see through 5ft of ground? x ray vision only let's me see through 3ft... which doesn't help.
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Hito Hyuga
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 1:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cmkawasaki wrote:
Hito Hyuga wrote:
See, the issue is, all the players, and the gm, find it stupid that "masterwork" items break heck.... do you know howm much HP a magic item has? for every +1 it gains 10 hp and 2 hardness.... so a +5 shuriken has an extra 50 hp and 10 hardness.... So if we take into account projectile weapons have a base hardness and hp of 5 tack on the bonus from being enhanced that is now 15 hardness and 55 hp now... please tell me how throwing that breaks it? What logical conclusion can shine light on that, not to mention the weapon is treated as masterwork.... I'm sorry, if anything it should not break, some "masterwork" item if after being used once it breaks.


You speak of game balance, but where is the game balance where your weapon of choice breaks after hitting (or has a 50% break chance) when it is not only masterwork but magically enhanced. Let's not even get into different metals (such as adamantine which has 20 base hardness, so it'd have 30 from enhancements and 90 hp with a base of 40 so really..... I don't see a logical reason for it breaking) now a base Shuriken with the 5 hardness and 5 hp I can see breaking, it's fragile but honestly.... onces its been enhanced as such... breaking is almost system-wise impossible, no matter what "ruling" they slap onto it. If they really want them breakable, they should disallow them enhancements, the inability to be masterworked, and unable to be crafted from really durable material. /rant Now, back onto the topic here.... regardless of my DMs choice of balance, can someone help me with the content in the Original Post, please.


Edit: I'd like to also take the time to point out, a single strike from my character (bar Sudden Strike) is unable to even come close to the 50 damage needed to "ruin" a weapon so enhanced.


It's not unbalanced, under the following addition - since the blade doesn't break, you don't get the discount of mass ammunition off the price of the ammunition, correct? Because you could say the 1/50th price is because they made a one-use 'bomb' that does that much damage.

Assuming that it's not discounted, that also makes your halfling a very, very rich man to purchase such expensive ammunition. As in richer than most PC's should ever get at level 20. Ever.

The answer to your feat question is yes, you will still get the extra attacks from the other TWF feats.


So, it does give me my extra attacks, so I'd have 4 primary hand attacks and 7 off-hand attacks, counting the 3 extra attacks from the TWF tree?
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Dairius_Chi
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hito Hyuga wrote:
question... is there anything that allows me to see through 5ft of ground? x ray vision only let's me see through 3ft... which doesn't help.


Tremorsense would be the closest thing...DnD is low on X-ray visions, which cannot pierce lead(haha) and the example tehy give is if you look into a dark chest, you can't see stuff unless you have darkvision...since its dark, though that would be obvious enough.

Anyways...yeah, tremorsense is your best bet.

edit: not to mention tremorsense is rarely less than 15 feet, even from feats/magic items. Though it wouldn't be exact, you could say there was an opening about 10 feet down, and you could see anything moving along teh floor/walls down there, but flying creatures wouldn't be noteable, and usually you can't see what's exactly down there, you can however use it to pin-point invisible creatures on the ground though, so no miss chance.
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