Multiple Instances of Evasion

[ZeronosVega]

Recently, one of my players who had taken Fast hero and was planning on going into Shinobi Adept. However, he was concerned with the repeat gaining of the Evasion ability and asked what should be done about it.

To be honest, the only solution I could think of would be to implement the rule where Uncanny Dodge and Evasion switch places. This way, the Shinobi Adept's Evasion could count towards Uncanny Dodge 2.

However, I have another player who is also a Fast Hero (primary, where the other is only in that class for the defense benefits) and I feel that implementing that rule wouldn't be fair to him, since we are beginning at a low level. As such, I wanted to have some insight as to how others would rule this situation. Thanks for any help.
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[Shogimaru]

I would give him a bonus feat chosen from the shinobi adept's feat list. Although limited it's better than gaining an ability twice. You could make it so he gains improved evasion but that would be a little OP at 6th level.

[cmkawasaki]

You don't get a new ability - there is a loss for getting the same ability twice.

[ZeronosVega]

@Shogimaru Yeah, I would rather opt to not grant him Improved Evasion at such a low level. The Bonus Feat idea is one I had considered and would make for a good option, as I wasn't going to grant a repeat ability.

@cmkawasaki This, too, is an option and probably the expected one.
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[Shogimaru]

@ cmkawasaki- Normally I wouldn't give him anything either but I thought ZV wanted to be generous

Also don't forget about multiclassing penalties. I don't see rules in the main file so I assume that basic and advanced classes can still count for XP penalty like they do in modern.

[Dairius_Chi]

I have yet to find anyone that actually enforces multiclass XP penalties >.>


Yeah, generally if a class gives a feat you already had, I would allow another feat from that class's bonus feat list in place of it.

Class features not so much, if a tough hero went into shinobi bodyguard with remain conscious, getting it a second time would give no additional benefit, and wouldn't allow another ability to be chosen in its place.


It's up th the GM but, since there is already evasion X, I personally wouldn't allow the players to choose something else if they took fast and shinobi adept, getting evasion from both

[ZeronosVega]

[Shogimaru]

Well that makes things so much easier. I've been opperating under those conditions of my own fault. But yeah, ZV, multiclassing exists.

[keksmuzh]

I wouldn't give him anything; unless you're doing the same thing for other players it seems like (unintentional) favoritism.

As for the multiclassing penalties: I also have yet to find someone that enforces them.
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"No Hiruko, you can't fix people like you do for your puppets. When people fall apart they die."

[ZeronosVega]

[ZeronosVega]

[cmkawasaki]

[Frankto]

Evasion, uncanny dodge, and what have you, do not stack. You gain nothing more if you already have the ability.
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[Hito Hyuga]

Most GMs (any I have been under) would grant a bonus feat from the list of that class if characters have multiple instances of the same ability because some classes synergize well together but getting dead levels just kills a class for some people, which can actually cause a character to become subpar (which is fine for low power games, but I've yet to be in one) so it's still up to the GM. I always ask about these things before I plan my build, cause it's useful information to know.

[ZeronosVega]

[Nerameshu]

In most systems I've seen, the Uncanny Dodge or Evasion (or what have you) will tell you in the class description whether or not to upgrade it if a player already has it. In this sense, if the Shinobi Adpet class doesn't say to replace it with something else, you really shouldn't replace it. I hate to draw a parallel from real life into a discussion about a d20 game, but if you learn to do something in martial arts IRL, then you won't learn to do it again in another art. The movements may be different, but you're doing the same thing.

On multiclassing- To deal with the "let's kill rats to level up" mentality, my DM doesn't award experience. Instead, when he feels we've accomplished something, we level up. Two plus sessions were we made LOTR jokes? No levels. A single, half-hour session were we took on two bosses and lived? Level up.

[Hito Hyuga]

[keksmuzh]

[Nerameshu]

Hito: If we take on an extra mission, it counts towards whether or not we gain a level. If it was a particularly hard extra mission, we gain a level before we play again. If it was a waste of dungeon-spelunking brought on by our min-maxer, we just chalk it up to the "Have we leveled up yet?" gauge.

keksmuzh: In our game, the DM just makes us give up something else. In the terms of negative levels, it's more like an eyeball or an arm.

*DISCLAIMER* This isn't the Nd20 system I'm talking about. I'm GMing that one, and I haven't gotten a chance to yet.

[Hito Hyuga]

[Aigol]

In my games I generally hand out xp based on accomplishments. If it is a relevant mission combat you get xp but if you decide to just start running around killing stuff it doesn't matter how much you do you don't get xp. I also hand out mission xp to make the players level up on a particular timetable