Nin Weapons: Are they as bad as they look?

[undertow92182]

Hey All,

I been combing over the rules again and did some comparisons. One of the most staggering comparisons, by far, is looking at the difference between Nin Weapons and Archaic Weapons.

They both require a feat to access, but it feels like Archaic Weapons are better than Nin Weapons on nearly every front.

Basic Comparison

Damage: The damage dice are straight up better on Archaic Weapons than Nin Weapons.
Range: Nin Weapons have no good ranged options while Archaic Weapons have three.
Crit Range: Archaic Weapons have a wide variety but most are either 19-20 or 20/x3 while nearly half of the Nin Weapons are just a flat 20.
Wealth DC: This is the only place where Nin Weapons pull ahead. They have, on average, a lower Wealth DC.

Side by Side Comparisons

Kunai vs. Throwing Knife: The statlines are 100% identical except for wealth DC where the Archaic Throwing Knife is actually the cheaper choice. In a shuriken holster you hold 4 kunai, or 10 throwing knives. Throwing Knife is the clearly superior choice. I know Throwing Knives are under both categories, but if throwing knives are better is means the Nin Weapon exclusive is useless.

Hand Crosbow vs. Hankyuu: Hand Crossbow has a wealth dc of 8 (+1 Lic) while the Hankyuu is a 10. The Hand Crossbow requires you to give up your movement to reload it while the Hankyuu sees no such limitation, other than only being able to fire 1 shot per round. The Hand Crossbow has a range of 30, 1d4 damage, and a crit of 20 while the Hankyuu has a range of 100, 1d6 damage, and a crit of 20/x3. Winner: Hankyuu.

Ninja-to vs. Longsword: Identical statlines all the way. Tie.

Sword-cane vs. Sabre: Sword-cane has a higher wealth DC by 1 but otherwise these two weapons have the same stats. The Sword-cane is automatically a concealed weapon, requiring a spot check to notice... not bad. The Sabre gets a +4 bonus to avoid being disarmed... also not bad. It you are trying to appear unarmed at any time then the Sword-cane takes it.. otherwise it goes to Sabre for being cheaper and giving a bonus to avoid losing grip on it. Tie.

Conclusion

Unless I have missed something the Archaic options are either equal, or just flat out better, when compared to Nin Weapons.

[TheMightyBrutus]

Yup

[undertow92182]

I'm guessing the lack of response is acknowledgement of the disparity? I plan on creating a write-up on how to improve the current lists but only if there is a consensus that there is an issue.

[ZeronosVega]

You'll generally find most GMs grant Nin Weapons Proficiency for free, which is where the use of Nin Weapons really find their way as they're a tool everyone can use should they need to.
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[undertow92182]

That's very interesting.

If a group were to impliment that rule would you give them the Nin Weapons prof at character creation or when they get the Genin feat?

[ZeronosVega]

At creation. I rarely employ the Genin, Chuunin, Jounin feats anyway as my games tend to avoid having characters go through such ranks. Then again, I tend to employ a bunch of house rules like Every-Odd Level Feats and using Shinobi Archetypes to ease the burden of skill points and feats.

Another perspective is that we've seen where pre-genin already have training using them.
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